47 replies to this topic

[Shortpoet-GTD]

newt wants to mine the moon.

"In an article defending Newt's spaced-out ideas, the National Review notes that "in April of this year,
a new company was formed in Silicon Valley by Microsoft veterans and others to start mining it robotically, with a first lunar landing planned as soon as 2013.
So, yes, there are actually plans being laid to mine the moon for resources.

Believe it or not, some really smart folks at NASA were on board with the idea, too (see this story I wrote about NASA's vision for space colonies, circa 1975). In fact, they came up with these sketches to illustrate the orbital cities built on moon mining.

On the other hand, the new moon-mining venture, Moon Express, would use remote controlled
robots to harvest the moon for resources. And Newt's more recent vision calls for tourism and "manufacturing".
And both seem much more depressing than Gingrich's orbital cities of yore.
They reflect the basest instincts of the modern capitalist man:
Let's head to the moon! Why? It'd make for great tourism, and we could mine the hell out of it!"


http://www.treehugge...ontent=My Yahoo

[mariaandrea]

Honestly, I'm not against it. I'm feeling a little nauseous to be on the same side as He Who Shall Not Be Named, but I think we need to head to the asteroids as well. I am not for a free-for-all capitalist exploitation of the resources of the moon or asteroids and I think limits and regulations need to be in place before we go there, devised by the smartest minds on the planet, but we need to expand our horizons in many ways, and this is one. I think we need to have colonies on the moon and Mars.

[zararina]

They will spend huge money for such mining project in the moon because they will make sure to get their capital back quadrupled (that's exaggeration I know but could be true Lol).
They think they own whatever land they land on, the moon is just a death thing they could claim. (sounds familiar?)
So who will benefit on the future destruction of the moon?
And who will suffer most of the harm? Maybe those who can not pay for the fare to other planet.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Someone overheard gingrich humming this tune.......... (not really)

"and i think it's gonna be a long, long time
'til touchdown brings me around again to find
I'm not the man i think i am at home, oh no no
I'm a rocket man
rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
and i think its gonna be a long long time.
and all of this science i don't understand, no
it's just my job five days a week now
I'm a rocket man."

[mariaandrea]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 29 January 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Someone overheard gingrich humming this tune.......... (not really)

"and i think it's gonna be a long, long time
'til touchdown brings me around again to find
I'm not the man i think i am at home, oh no no
I'm a rocket man
rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone
and i think its gonna be a long long time.
and all of this science i don't understand, no
it's just my job five days a week now
I'm a rocket man."

Ok, that was funny
and while I'm almost always in agreement with you, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree about this one.
I think responsible mining of resources on the moon and asteroids is a viable option for us. However, I do admit that "responsible" getting at those resources is the problem and it's likely that private companies will extract them for maximum profit rather than state run industries, because of course, at least here in the US, anything "state-run" will have conservatives screaming bloddy murder and will never happen. And then, nations will likely be competing with each other for those resources as they develop the technology to get there. The problems involved make it extremely unlikely anything will happen in that direction for decades yet, but in principle, I'm still for it, while acknowedging that in practice it could be a disaser.

[tigerlily78]

I think anyone who thinks this is a fun idea should see the movie "Moon" (2009) with Sam Rockwell. Yes, it's "Science Fiction", but I think it paints a convincing picture of what such an endeavor might be like for Moon Miners, and what the end result of such Cosmic Corporatism might be. Sure, it sounds harmless enough... but let's really be honest with ourselves about the extent to which humans can take something harmless and make it deplorable.

[E3 wise]

Folks rule #1 follow the money, think of it like this- who would benefit from producing this technology, why those who already produce most of the products for our current military industrial complex, so in a world where military spending might be cut back what better way for politicians to channel money back to the big companies trying to help them get elected than sexy futuristic programs like this.

Also what would be the best product to be mined, well Deuterium, also called heavy hydrogen, of course because of its energy potential to guess who multi- national energy producers, gold, Zinc and so on.

Eliminating hunger or poverty, or establishing jobs programs or job growth that won’t help the military industrial complexes but this would.   I am not against space programs but honestly this idea smells like a way help the rich get richer to me.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Before the fall of the Roman empire-didn't they have a massive military too? 'Nuff said.

[Runi1024]

Have any of you seen "Avatar"?

Hollywood said it best, that is just what man does. They go somewhere use it up and move on.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Runi1024, on 30 January 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Have any of you seen "Avatar"?

Hollywood said it best, that is just what man does. They go somewhere use it up and move on.

Well at least they "won" more or less in the movie. They sent them back "to their dying planet."
In real life, we've just got one- Earth.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

We know the earth will recover. But if we don't change our ways, drastically and quickly, the human race
and most other forms of life on this planet will be toast.

True, we've been here for just a nanosecond in cosmic time,
but what of Beethoven, John Lennon, Jane Goodall...............we've had some good folks here,
and it's such a magnificent planet to waste.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

arboramans, on 30 January 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

In a billion years time, will it have mattered that a Beethoven existed and wrote the Ode to Joy if there isn't a
sentient creature to listen to it?

So you're saying that it doesn't matter that people fight for cleaner air/water/soil for their grand kids, because
we'll all be dead in a billion years anyway, so why bother?
It matters for the here and now.

[tigerlily78]

arboramans, on 30 January 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

In a billion years time, will it have mattered that a Beethoven existed and wrote the Ode to Joy if there isn't a sentient creature to listen to it?

Perhaps not, but does that give us any reason to throw in the towel now and give up? Does it mean that going full speed ahead to ruin the planet in the quickest course is the best option, since it gives the current human population their "greatest" experience?

The oldest hominids fossils are around 4 million years old. Something resembling human civilization happened in the last 10,000 year or so.  It seems pretty crazy to say, "well damn it all to hell, I won't be here in a billion years anyways..." when on the human scale of things a BILLION years is nearly infathomable.

It's pretty silly that you have people who can't bring themselves to consider the impact of their actions in 5 years or 10 years or 50... and then to argue everything we might do and be is moot because in a billion years it will be all for naught.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Hell, I might be gone by next Tuesday. That doesn't mean I won't recycle on Monday.

[E3 wise]

So herein lays the great philosophical questions regarding the duality of humans in our world today.  Both our power to create and destroy, to cherish or be apathetic, to dream of a better future or accept the world as being what it is because it can be nothing else, to expound people can or cannot change.

  For many it comes down to the philosophical questions, sometimes referred to as the college questions of where did I, or we, come from, why are we here, and where are we going.  As a person or nation our actions and the way we live has consequences, even doing nothing creates its own set of outcomes.

   I have always hoped that by the time we began to mine the moon, it would be for the expansion of mankind into the solar system.  My hope was that by that time we as a species would have developed to the point that we cherished all life.  Ok yes I am a Trekker and a NASA nut but that was my hope.

  This tread began with the discussion of Newt talking about developing the moon and the feeling that we need to take care of our environment and society here before we start thinking about the next step.

Personally I have always been fascinated by people that talk about terra forming mars. I mean it’s a cool idea and to go to mars, and we will probably need a base on the moon to get there.

Yet my question is why we are not Terra forming earth today, why not use our science and knowledge to restoring the forests, the natural habitats, the coral reefs.  A definitive, holistic care plan for this place that is home to us all, a planet wide environmental Hippocratic oath to do no harm.
E3Wise

[mariaandrea]

E3 wise, on 31 January 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Yet my question is why we are not Terra forming earth today, why not use our science and knowledge to restoring the forests, the natural habitats, the coral reefs.  A definitive, holistic care plan for this place that is home to us all, a planet wide environmental Hippocratic oath to do no harm.
E3Wise

Because a large swath of the population of this planet thinks "holistic" is a weird or dirty word and literally sees the earth as a big ball of resources to be used. And always will, because they raise children to believe that and because there will always be a large segment of society that needs the hierarchal structure that conservatism supplies and will believe whatever they're told. By people whose interests lie in exploiting resources and people for power and money.

Will that change in the future? Maybe. I hope so. A lot of days I doubt it. What we're really asking, when we dig deeper, is not for people to use alternative energy, or rebuild coral reefs, or recycle househould garbage, or drive less. What we're really asking, at the deepest level, is for people to change who they are on a basic level. For humanity to reject greed and a hunger for power and wealth. These are intrinsic in far too many people. These human drives need to be rooted out of our genetic makeup altogether. Sure, there are plenty of us who are not subject to the baser desires, but we are nowhere near the tipping point where we are the majority. Because now, even people who don't have money and power nurture the dream that one day they might, and because of that will not fight those who do have it. There are plenty of ordinary, everyday, people out there who support agribusiness and that's just one example.

[joeldgreat]

I really don't like the idea. Because this means that when people are starting to think such things, it only means that our own natural resources was already depleted. With so many science fiction movies and books written with the same format, it looks like we are on the lossing side. Maybe, scientists should focus their attention on how to resolved our planetary issues and not a diversion of doing something destructive to other planets.

[13tyates]

Well, I guess we will just find every place we can go to take from and harvest for our use. At the same time if it is done in a way that does not harm the moon its self then I guess it could be ok. I think there could be problems, but who knows. I think that is the main problem I have with it, we do not really know what doing this would do to the moon. There is just not enough known. I guess people will find away around it and do what they want.