12 replies to this topic

[MyDigitalpoint]

The increasing sustainability awareness is making us move on to renewable energy sources, among which solar power is my favorite.

First time I heard about it, solar panel were so big and expensive that I couldn't figure out how my parents could accept my idea to install them at home.

Overtime both panel size and pricing began to drop, as new solar lamps and other solar-powered devices were released.

Today I believe that we can save money substituting regular electricity supply for solar power supply, but while the price tag for both panels and devices is relatively affordable, summing up all what needs to be substitute is still expensive, at least in the city I live in.

True, whatever money invested pays off with long-years of service, cutting electric costs, and environmental relief, but living on a tight budget may be still a slap on your face.

How affordable would be for you switching from regular electric supply to a full-solar power in-house?

[still learning]

MyDigitalpoint, on 19 March 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

.....Overtime both panel size and pricing began to drop....
Today I believe that we can save money substituting regular electricity supply for solar power supply......
..... full-solar power in-house?

Prices for PV panels have come down.  They'll no doubt come down some more.

As far as personally saving money goes, depends on your particular situation.  Depends partly on how much per kWh you pay for electricity now.  That varies a lot.  Depends on how much sun you get.  That varies a lot  Depends on what incentives, what rebates or subsidies are available to you.  That varies a lot.  Depends too on how much you can do yourself, if any.

As far as overall saving money without taxpayer or ratepayer subsidy, guess some places are actually getting there, solar electricity cost about on parity with grid electricity.  Places with really expensive grid supplied electricity.  

"full solar power in-house," not sure what you mean by that.  Do you mean becoming fully independent of grid-electricity?  That's going to be hard for most people.  Unacceptably expensive too.

[Phil]

Solar is very affordable now.  You can buy panels for under $1/watt and a whole system for about $1.70/watt.  I paid $1.44/watt for panels and my payback will be under 8 years, even though my electric rates are only 6.5 cents/KWH.  With panels 44 cents/watt cheaper than what I paid the payback would be even sooner.

The key is a DIY installation.  It isn't hard at all, just find someone who knows about electricity.  There are a couple of details unique to solar but they are minor.   If you decided to go the DIY route I could list them, (labeling, grounding, etc.).

There is a program called PV-Watts that lets you simulate a system.  It requires some input regarding panel type and quantity, location, etc. and gives you a monthly production estimate for your specific situation.

Also, the company I used, SMA America, has a great tool that allows you to get a very detaild analysis.  Again you identify your location, configure the system, (with one of their inverters of course), type and quantity of panels, etc.  I used it to plan my system.

Here is the address: http://www.sma-ameri.../downloads.html  Select "software" then "Sunny Design"

As said above, grid tie is competitive now, off grid or grid tie with battery backup is not.  SMA is unique in that you can start with grid tie now and add battery backup later, you don't need to throw out the grid tie inverter.

You can negate your entire electric bill with grid tie.  My system cover's about 80%  of my yearly usage and when I find a workable dimmable LED flood, I should reach 100% or better.

Best prices I've found for panels and inverters is Sun Electronics.  Best prices I've seen for mounting racks, wire, etc. is Solar Electric Distributors.  They are the companies I used.

[Phil]

By the way, you used to be able to get low interest solar conversion loans up to $25,000.  That is more than enough to be elecric neutral in an average house.  Costs are at the point now that they should drop the federal incentive and replace it with low/no interest solar conversion loans instead.  Pricing is no longer the major impediment, up front costs are.

[Sarah C.]

I am looking into going solar. I have a 500sf home, so the upfront costs should not be too high. I am wondering how reliable the solar panels are. Are they known to be a reliable source of power, or do they need repair often, or to be replaced often?

[Phil]

Most carry a warrantee that they'll produce at least 85-90% of rated power after 25 years.  Since NO manufacturer wants to payout on a warrantee, you can bet the performance is way better than that on average.  Last I checked Bell Labs had some of their original solar cells running after half a century, for all I know they are still running.

They typically can't be repaired since they are sealed and they are low cost enough now that it probably would be cheaper to buy a replacement than to repair it anyway.  There isn't much that can go wrong with them.  With automated production lines, there is little chance of a bad solder joint, bad seal, etc.  In any case, the manufacturer should replace defiective units.

I have 42 an no failures yet if that's any consolation.  Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

[Sarah C.]

Phil, on 20 March 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Most carry a warrantee that they'll produce at least 85-90% of rated power after 25 years.  Since NO manufacturer wants to payout on a warrantee, you can bet the performance is way better than that on average.  Last I checked Bell Labs had some of their original solar cells running after half a century, for all I know they are still running.

They typically can't be repaired since they are sealed and they are low cost enough now that it probably would be cheaper to buy a replacement than to repair it anyway.  There isn't much that can go wrong with them.  With automated production lines, there is little chance of a bad solder joint, bad seal, etc.  In any case, the manufacturer should replace defiective units.

I have 42 an no failures yet if that's any consolation.  Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

That is good to know and eases my mind. Thank you for giving me this information!

[Shortpoet-GTD]

"Average selling prices for the photovoltaic modules that turn sunlight into electricity have dropped
to 80 to 85 cents per watt, a decline of more than 10 percent from levels near 95 cents recorded at the
end of 2011, a year that saw prices fall by about 50 percent.
Those price drops have helped boost solar sales and made solar power less dependent on subsidies to compete
against fossil fuels."
http://www.reuters.c...E8FAD0X20120413

[Pat]

Our house is all electric so going towards solar panels would be a consideration.  My concern would be during the time of year that the sun is not that warm on the East Coast.  This winter was not bad but some winters it can be very severe.

I am going to use the link above to see what it would cost to covert the house to solar energy.

A neighbor in a larger house has added solar panels to their home recently.

[katniss]

I have looked at this price comparison site from time to time.

http://www.ecobusine...olar_panels.htm

DMSolar pricing seems pretty incredible: $1.80 - $1.85/watt for Canadian Solar or DMSolar's brand (which is basically built to their spec by the major Chinese producers, one of which is the builder of Canadian Solar panels) in 230w, 280w, and 295w panel sizing.

The 280w+ offerings are really enticing to me since I have limited roof space (based on panel width, not necessarily length) and a lot of energy needs :).

Does anyone have any experience or educated thoughts regarding DMSolar and/or Canadian Solar with regards to if purchasing these panels through DMSolar is a reasonable choice or if it is likely to be a mistake?

[Phil]

Those are lousy solar prices.  Check out www.sunelec.com instead for both panels and inverters.

I bought canadian solar CSP-230P from them and they work great!  They have a lower temp coefficient than average which allowed me to have 14/string rather than 13, that makes a big difference in performance.

Check out http://solarelectric...m/shoppingcart/ for all the other stuff, USE2 wire, connectors, mounting racks, grounding, etc.

[artistry]

With the passage of time, the cost of solar panels should decrease. There were solar companies that were installing the panels for free and connected with the utility company for a monthy rebate. I also thought there were government subsidies or credits, for homeowners to install energy savings products. These things all help homeowners.

[Phil]

I don't know if they'll get much cheaper, they are already commodity priced.  Federal incentive is 30% tax credit, not deduction but credit! That means if you spend $20K you can write $6K off your taxes!  I think they expire 2016.  Don't forget about net metering and state incentives, even some PUD incentives.

A couple of years back our PUD would pay you $1/watt installed!  If they offered that today I'd install another 20KW in addition to the 10KW I already have.