2 replies to this topic

[E3 wise]

One of the most exciting technologies that are poised to change our transportation system is of course electric cars.  What most people are unaware of is that there are actually two different types of electric vehicles.  The first type of course is what is known as a plug in electric car.  The current examples are the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt and Tesla roadster and Model S.  These cars use advanced batteries to power the cars and have a stated range of 60- 100 miles by the manufacture.
   Many analysts feel that these cars need to solve two important issues, first being charging times and the second being limited ranges. Depending on model- these cars take anywhere from 8 to 14 hours to charge based on the amperage and voltages available.  Likewise range is a factor when consumers consider the ability to take long trips.  Many consumers look at these cars as being a good choice for a second vehicle due to the limited range.  It is important to point out that recent studies have shown that over 80% of driver’s average less than 100 miles per day so plug in electrics can fit a large part of the market.
The second less well known choice are Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Cars (FCV’s).  Currently three car models are available for lease. In California the Honda Clarity and Mercedes B-Class F-CELL, while in Hawaii the Chevy Equinox FCV is now being leased. All have several advantages over regular plug in electrics.  The largest advantages FCV’s have are shorter fill up, much greater range and larger capacities for passengers and luggage.  On average it takes 3 ½ minutes to fuel an FCV with the average cost of $2.85 per liter of compressed hydrogen.  All have a 5.5 liter tank capacities meaning that fill up average just under $15.00 with ranges averaging 265 for the Mercedes F Cell and 285 miles Honda Clarity respectfully.  The Chevy Equinox averages around 300 miles.
So how do FCV’s work.  First they are fueled using specialized pumps at current service stations.  These pumps have been in development for over 15 years and have the ability to use either Alternative Energy such as solar, wind, and geothermal or the electric grid to split water on site into hydrogen and oxygen .

Once filled an onboard generator uses the hydrogen to separate electrons and provide energy to the electric motors.  This means that the pickup is very fast and that the ability for increased size is very possible.  It also means that other applications such as bus’s, tractor trailers and farm tractors can also be used.  Currently fuel cell buses are working in cities in Europe and the United States.  Likewise companies like Freightliner in partnership with Vision motor works are developing FCV’s for long haul trucking application with testing currently being done in Los Angeles.
   The most common issues with FCV’s are cost and the public’s view of safety with FCV’s along with increased range.  One of the most interesting advances has been the ability to have FCV’s without using platinum as a catalyst in the fuel cell.  This means that the cost could greatly be reduced. Manufactures believe that first generation FCV’s will sell in the $30,000 range.  Factor in the $8000 tax credit and the decreased cost of fuel and that puts them on par with many other electric cars.
On the issue of safety the National Transportation Safety Administration testing has found over decade long review process that FCV’s are no more dangerous than gasoline cars.  These cars have passed multiple crash test scenarios and have proven that they are indeed safe.
Finally on the issue of mileage – several manufactures have developed a 385- 400 mile range in cars tested for rollout in 2015. This is due to the ability to provide higher storage pressures on board.
    So what will the choices be in 2015?  Currently Chevy, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, Nissan, Kia, BMW, and Hyundai are all slated to come out in 2015.
  With the exception of the BMW model, I have had the privilege to test drive all the other FCV models while attending the National Hydrogen Association and Fuel Cell and Hydrogen conferences in 2009, 2010 and 2011.  They are all responsive, quick and very quiet.  The largest determining factor in choosing the best fit for consumer is size ranging from the Clarity which seats four and the Toyota Advanced FCV which seats 7 and averages 74 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent.

   Yes I said 74 miles, and this was done in all kinds of traffic from city to highway and everything in between.  Likewise they have been tested to temperatures as low as 20 below zero up to 122 degrees F.
    My biggest impression was how well they handled in city traffic and the ability to fuel them from solar and wind technologies using technology from companies like Sun Hydro and Hydrogenics.  Factor in the fact that the largest producer of Hydrogen worldwide is the Oil industry and you can see why companies such as Royal Dutch Shell, Conoco Phillips and others have jumped on the Hydrogen bandwagon.

    Finally when you consider that the only emission is water vapor and you quickly see why FCV’s are the first choice of many in the transportation manufacturing industries.  Yet it is important to remember that there is no one perfect choice for our transportation needs.  It will take many different choices to move consumers to electric cars in the future.  What is nice is knowing that there will be a wide range of solutions available soon.

   As they become more common place prices will fall and this will allow more consumers to purchase electric cars that free us more and more from the oil addiction.  Honestly I can’t wait to buy an FCV and if you drive one I think you will agree.
  E3wise.

[still learning]

While hydrogen fuel cell cars sound good, they have been touted for some years with little to show so far.

Maybe too much puffpiece journalism initially,  too much emphasis on the plusses, not enough on the minuses.

Right now the state of hydrogen fuel cell autos remind me of the state of electric autos during the 1990's.  Remember the EV-1 and the others?  They had a limited availability,  available lease only and only in selected locations.  Same as fuel cell autos now.

The actual cost of fuel cell hydrogen is never mentioned.  Apparently needs to be very pure, else the fuel cell life is reduced.

Most of the hydrogen now produced is consumed by either the fertilizer manufacuring or oil refining businesses and it is produced by "steam reforming" of fossil fuels.  http://en.wikipedia....ydrogen_economy
Using fossil fuels to produce hydrogen then using the hydrogen in an automobile?.  Don't think there's a carbon footprint reduction.  

The Wikipedia article says that electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen is less efficient than steam reforming and costs three to ten times as much to carry out.  No carbon footprint of hydrogen production if renewables electricity is used, but right now renewables electricity is more expensive than conventional, so that 3 to 10 gets higher still.

There is research being done to reduce the cost of fuel cells.
There is research being done to find ways to better store and distribute hydrogen.
There are research projects under way to find methods of carrying  out the electrolysis of water more efficiently.

So, when enough R&D is done, maybe then....

[E3 wise]

Your response interested me because it reflects many of the issues fuel cells and hydrogen has faced in the becoming a comprehensive solution.  As far as your first question regarding costs.  Currently steam reforming is producing hydrogen for an average cost of $1.85-$2.15 a liter.  The reason I used the $2.85 cost per liter was because this figure is used for hydrogen from renewable energy sources. I quoted Sun Hydro and Hydrogenise as sources because these are companies and technologies that I have personally worked with and researched.  They are but two of the current off the shelf technologies that are not only in the market place but being used in other countries.  In Germany several companies running Hydrogen buses are giving there fuel costs as $2.65 when converted to dollars.
   The other fact not swell known is that the Obama administration made a decision in its first year of office to move the roll out of hydrogen cars to 2015 to allow battery and plug in electrics to have a four year window of non competition.  When I say I have test drove over 10 different car makers models I am 100% serious.  One of the best is the Chevy Equinox FCV which is being used by the military here in the United States.
It drives just as well or better, as a standard car, has great pick up and handling and could revolutionize Americas auto industry.
   Lastly Germany the world leader in alternative energy and hydrogen is on track to roll out over 700 hydrogen fueling stations by 2015.  The problem is not the technology or cost, it’s the unfortunate situation that the average American is not aware of the advances and facts of fuel cell and hydrogen technology.  Now as I have said in the past, there is no silver bullet.  We will need many different choices to overcome climate change.  Last fact it takes 1.24 volts of DC to start electrolyzing water to pure hydrogen and O2 so for alternative energy sources it’s a great fit.
E3wise