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#3
Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:14 AM
What a hypocrite. So everyone on the left has been indoctrinated and "greenwashed" for decades by the media, but of course that doesn't happen on the right. Right? It's simpler on their side, really. You just indoctrinate everyone there to believe that everyone on the left is stupid and evil without having to get into any actual facts.
#4
Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:24 AM
Right calls left communist, left calls right corporate nazis. Too much name calling distracting from the core issue of corporations that have sold their soul for a dollar. They have no core values except profit and external damage is just a cost of doing business. Not that all companies are like that but those that are tend to be quite large and powerful. And if you as a parent can't help your child understand what they are viewing than maybe you need to grow up a little and quit calling names to cast the blame elsewhere. Makes you wonder and be troubled that fox news has as high a viewership as it does.
#5
Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:05 AM
These people make crazy seem sane. They think of and report on the most bizarre things, None of the lot of reporters. who take a job with Fox, appear to have the capacity to think. They are a bunch of walking mush brains. Who in their right mind could continue to listen to such tripe?
#6
Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:55 PM
I think you really should question your "news" source when they have time to editorialize on children's entertainment like the Muppets and Spongebob... wasn't there something more important to talk about? How about that new bill letting the president and congress detain indefinitely American citizens without the right to due process? How about the bill making internet providers and web sites responsible for copyright protectionon behalf of the music, movie, and print industry? How about the fact that a local police department in Georgia was apparently given an amphibious tank by the Federal Government... what the heck do they need one of those for? Is this because we are fighting all our wars in the desert from here on out? 
While the Senate and Congress were further undermining the freedom of our nation, you can apparently rely on Fox News for a "fair and balanced" rant about muppets.
To Conservative Green... I don't know of many liberals referring to people on the right as Nazis... perhaps Fascists. Although within Fascism there seems to be some difference in terms of economic policy... some groups were staunchly anti-capitalism, some were content to accept private industry persisting as long as it could be subverted to their will and needs without question or opposition. I'd be more likely to peg those still cheerleading for unfettered capitalism and small (nearly defunct) government Corporatists or in favor of the Corporate Oligarchy. It seems to more accurately describe what is happening in the US in terms of money and power in politics, although I do think some on the right have embraced what are troublingly reminiscent of the fascist strategies.
While the Senate and Congress were further undermining the freedom of our nation, you can apparently rely on Fox News for a "fair and balanced" rant about muppets.
To Conservative Green... I don't know of many liberals referring to people on the right as Nazis... perhaps Fascists. Although within Fascism there seems to be some difference in terms of economic policy... some groups were staunchly anti-capitalism, some were content to accept private industry persisting as long as it could be subverted to their will and needs without question or opposition. I'd be more likely to peg those still cheerleading for unfettered capitalism and small (nearly defunct) government Corporatists or in favor of the Corporate Oligarchy. It seems to more accurately describe what is happening in the US in terms of money and power in politics, although I do think some on the right have embraced what are troublingly reminiscent of the fascist strategies.
#7
Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:18 PM
artistry, on 07 December 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:
These people make crazy seem sane. They think of and report on the most bizarre things, None of the lot of reporters. who take a job with Fox, appear to have the capacity to think. They are a bunch of walking mush brains. Who in their right mind could continue to listen to such tripe?
Katrina, he showed he had a heart but have since heard him say the typical right wing nut-job drivel.
Shame. He could be a good reporter elsewhere.
But we also have to remember that fixed news is murdoch's, so when he says jump they ask in unison-
"How high?"
Now, Miss Piggy? She could be a commie; she's bossy enough.
#8
Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:07 PM
TL, the actual name being used is less an issue than the overtly hostile tone that goes both directions. There is so much of a division reinforced by pointless name calling it is little wonder no one works together. There are many good people on each side of the issue but rational discussions cannot occur without being drowned out by a Coulter or Maddow. Dismissive or condescending tones and childish name calling do not help. And if Mr Murdoch is a corporatist pig and Miss Piggy is a commie pig I do not feel it appropriate to use those derogatory terms as they do not advance the discussion.
#9
Posted 07 December 2011 - 03:29 PM
I think there is a distinction to be made between a "name" (in the derogatory sense) and a label. If someone espouses views which edify the "rights" of corporations and the wealthy over everyone else... then does that not to some extent make them a Corporatist? If someone embraces an intense brand of nationalism and patriotism and it compells them to discrimination (and potentially violence) against immigrants, gays, the poor, and women are they not perhaps dallying in the realm of fascism? I.e.... behaving like a fascist?
Words like Corporatism and Fascism represent actual political and economic philosophies with faily well defined principles. They are not necessarily intending to evoke an emotionally charged response, nor do they necessarily represent an emotionally charged insult. If it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck as they say... even if it claims to be a libertarian.
These terms are not quite the same as calling someone a "name" or using a slur in my mind, since you can look them up in the dictionary and the description does not include some explanation such as "usually disparaging".
You are quite an enigma ConservativeGreen. Most of my extended family are "Conservatives" and they all for the most part think political correctness is unnecessary and taking away their freedom to talk and think however they please. I wonder if any of them would share your opinion about being called "names". There tends to be a pattern with them, which only underscores how shallow and irrational most of their opinions are... Things are only bad or wrong when someone else does it to them.
Words like Corporatism and Fascism represent actual political and economic philosophies with faily well defined principles. They are not necessarily intending to evoke an emotionally charged response, nor do they necessarily represent an emotionally charged insult. If it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck as they say... even if it claims to be a libertarian.
These terms are not quite the same as calling someone a "name" or using a slur in my mind, since you can look them up in the dictionary and the description does not include some explanation such as "usually disparaging".
You are quite an enigma ConservativeGreen. Most of my extended family are "Conservatives" and they all for the most part think political correctness is unnecessary and taking away their freedom to talk and think however they please. I wonder if any of them would share your opinion about being called "names". There tends to be a pattern with them, which only underscores how shallow and irrational most of their opinions are... Things are only bad or wrong when someone else does it to them.
#10
Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:53 PM
An enigma? I like that. I guess it might be strange to find libtard and repugnican equally inappropriate but it would be inconsistent with my philosophy to do otherwise. I will not be stereotyped or pigeonholed and I try not to do it to anyone else. To be X and therefore you must hold a rigid list of beliefs gives one little room to grow. I too have no use for political correctness as I feel it stifles conversation but that does not mean that hateful or hurtful speach is to be accepted as normal. I am just me, and I don't fit the mold anywhere and do not want to, either.
#11
Posted 07 December 2011 - 08:11 PM
Shortpoet, as I was entering my comment I thought of Shepherd Smith, for sure, he is the ony one who has some modicum of credibility. Maybe he will split the circus tent. But I am waiting for the Newscorp scandal, to help relieve Mr. Murdoch of his license to play. Might be waiting a long time. Cheers.
#14
Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:41 PM
ConservativeGreen, on 07 December 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:
There are many good people on each side of the issue but rational discussions cannot occur without being drowned out by a Coulter or Maddow. Dismissive or condescending tones and childish name calling do not help.
I agree that there are many good people on each side of the bottomless chasm and believe that respect is sorely lacking and must be in place before rational discussions can begin. ConservativeGreen, you are a conservative voice of great reason and respect that, unfortunately, seems to be quite rare anymore. I think this makes you that much more valuable a resource.
I cannot agree that the level and intensity of conservative and liberal antagonism and anger are equal, in fact, I've been quite vocal in my belief that one of the most debilitating weaknesses of the progressive community is their passive, cooperative and conciliatory (take the high road) nature. Coulter and Maddow are not comparable when it comes to violent and bigoted rhetoric, although I agree there are progressive analogs to Coulter.
When "Socialist" is used as a 4 letter word against progressives, you will usually get several in the group who do espouse to at least a few socialist ideas and are not afraid to discuss them in a respectful conversation.
Again, I don't think we can put a price on the value of having conservatives participate in these discussions. It is really the only true way out of this mess.
#15
Posted 11 December 2011 - 02:08 PM
I think it's gone beyond valid conservative - progressive dialogue and viewpoints. The exaggeration of political demagoguery and extremist solutions is a political method in and of itself that is being used to disempower the public from previous forms. A certain sector benefits from this process while everything else suffers. I don't watch either Maddow or Coulter because they contribute to this process. It would be dishonest to not admit the 'conservative' side and its interests have benefited at the expense of the liberal or progressive. And democracy is always a liberal entity.
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