Demographers refer to my generation as the baby boomers. I however regard myself as a member of the space generation. I was twelve years old in July of 1969 when Neil Armstrong and Buss Aldrin first set foot on the moon. I remember sitting with my family and watching the President of the United States speaking by phone with the astronauts as they stood on the surface of the moon. I remember my father saying that this was the greatest day in the history of our country, and the world would never be the same. How right he was.
The modern environmental moment started around that same time. As people viewed our big blue marble floating in the blackness of space it brought home the realization that this planet was all we had.
Today these accomplishments are considered old news, history of a time, now 43 years in the past. Yet what we need to remember is the work made possible by hundreds of thousands of peoples all coming together as a team to accomplish a specific goal. Today is the time to take up a new mission.
I believe that this new mission should be the transition of our planet from fossil fuels to societies based on alternative energy. Once again we can look toward NASA as a model. The international space station orbits our planet. It depends on solar energy for its power. It stores this energy in batteries and as hydrogen to power fuel cells to provide continuous uninterrupted power. It recycles its water to provide drinking water and energy and oxygen from splitting that water into its two base elements.
Our planet provides even more options. Not just solar energy, but wind, tidal, geothermal, biofuels, algae, anaerobic digesters, trash and forestry waste all provide ways to power the worlds societies. The earth is much like that space station, floating in the darkness of space. It is all we have and if we are to survive as a species we must start thinking of our planets resources as precious commodities to be cherished.
Water is our most threatened natural resource. Energy and water form a unique partnership because each is essential to possessing the other. We must reduce, reuse and recycle. We must work to replace much of our planets bio diversity by replanting forests and habitat restoration. In short we must do more with less and limit waste.
Most of all we must reshape a narrative to bring together many different people with differing views together to reshape our thinking and transform out world from a use up and throw away mentality to a world that works to maximize our resources.
There are those who will say that this cannot be done, but I know they are wrong. How do I know that this is all possible, simple, because I am a child of the space generation.
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0
Transforming our World to Alternative Energy
Started by E3 wise, Apr 08 2012 05:14 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:00 PM
Bravo! *clap clap* {Applause}
I too am a space baby. Just barely, but I was 5 on that historic night and I was allowed to stay up late to watch. We had a black & white TV then and several neighbors came over to watch because not everyone had a TV and even those who did wanted to gather with friends to see it because we were much more communal in those days. Everyone, all the adults, told me to remember the occasion, and I have, all these years later.
Later, my Girl Scout troop caught the environmental fever and we planted trees and gardens and earned badges by doing trail maintenance.
Later, we moved to the country as my parents caught the back to the land fever and we raised chickens and grew a garden and rode bikes.
Later, I watched as technology exploded in leaps and bounds and completely changed the way we live on a day to day basis, and watched as people came to believe anything is possible. And I fell in love with science fiction and the dreams of possibilities.
Anything is possible. We just have to make up our collective minds to do it.
Excellent post.
I too am a space baby. Just barely, but I was 5 on that historic night and I was allowed to stay up late to watch. We had a black & white TV then and several neighbors came over to watch because not everyone had a TV and even those who did wanted to gather with friends to see it because we were much more communal in those days. Everyone, all the adults, told me to remember the occasion, and I have, all these years later.
Later, my Girl Scout troop caught the environmental fever and we planted trees and gardens and earned badges by doing trail maintenance.
Later, we moved to the country as my parents caught the back to the land fever and we raised chickens and grew a garden and rode bikes.
Later, I watched as technology exploded in leaps and bounds and completely changed the way we live on a day to day basis, and watched as people came to believe anything is possible. And I fell in love with science fiction and the dreams of possibilities.
Anything is possible. We just have to make up our collective minds to do it.
Excellent post.
#3
Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:15 AM
It's a daunting challenge worldwide.
Here, we're fighting an uphill battle against the oil companies and their minions-wall street.
Countries at war or other countries living in the 12th century-it's not even on their radar.
Poor countries don't have the capacity to consider it; although more often than not, they're the ones
being hit the hardest with climate change from fossil fuels.
I believe it will be individual companies moving us forward, and not the governments of the world.
Just imagine-instead of someone sitting in a bar saying "The drinks are on me, everyone" we could
hear-"Everyone on the planet can have a solar panel- it's on me."
Here, we're fighting an uphill battle against the oil companies and their minions-wall street.
Countries at war or other countries living in the 12th century-it's not even on their radar.
Poor countries don't have the capacity to consider it; although more often than not, they're the ones
being hit the hardest with climate change from fossil fuels.
I believe it will be individual companies moving us forward, and not the governments of the world.
Just imagine-instead of someone sitting in a bar saying "The drinks are on me, everyone" we could
hear-"Everyone on the planet can have a solar panel- it's on me."
#4
Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:02 PM
I do agree that it will not be easy to transform our country and the world toward alternative energy and sustainable water, also I really appreciate you guys reading the post, there are times I just have to get things off my chest and the best way for me is to share it with someone. I also wanted to challenge people a little bit to start thinking locally in regard to how we use the world around us.
That said we do have a few things going on right now that can help move alternative energy and sustainable water forward in our society, First will be the rising cost of oil and gasoline this summer, the closer we get to $5.00 a gallon the more people will begin calling for alternatives because the cost of everything will go up, my fear is that the negative impact on our economy and President Obama may be tremendous and if the other side gets the presidency and congress, well it honestly scares me to even consider it.
The second factor will be global change, fact is we pay some of the lowest energy prices in the world, may not seem that way but compared to Europe and Asia we have it easy, those countries cannot afford to go under just because we are not getting on the board.
Why, well first because oil is needed for almost every product we use today, from aspirin to asphalt, cosmetics to computers,, helmets to heart valves, safety glass to shower curtains, umbrellas to zip lock bags, plastics, fertilizer, soaps, and on and on and on, all are made from petroleum based products. Right now gasoline makes up 50% of every barrel of oil, diesel another 20%, that remaining 30% forms the backbone of chemical that make up our world today.
Burning that oil for fuel and transportation is a waste and as oil rises in price and becomes more limited, more and more is being diverted from the things we need. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not happy that all this stuff comes from oil, as a person trained in science I am personally convinced that the rates of cancer and many other diseases have increased due to this dependence. But from a purely economic sense we are running out of time. Governments will have to transform their countries to energy from alternative energy if we are to keep our modern world as we know it.
Here is another economic factor, my degree’s are in laboratory science, one of the things that I learned very early on was that the chemicals that make our modern world possible are because nothing is wasted when it comes to oil, every bi-product is used from natural gas and propane to oil coke, and petroleum jelly.
That epiphany lead me to the fact that to make alternative energy possible economically we would have to do the same with alternative energy, in other words waste nothing. This became the foundation for my business, and for almost 15 years that message of economic viability by using everything has been the keystone of our business. Has the message become widespread, honestly no, we are still a very small fish in a great ocean, yet as prices increase it becomes cheaper and more logical to transform to alternative energy and sustainable water practices to generate a huge number of marketable bi-product beyond the energy and water provided.
Here is an example I spoke about a few months ago. In San Antonio Texas we did a project using solar, wind, and water from a brackish aquifer, its salt content was about 1/3 that of sea water. First we designed the alternative energy to provide 30% over what was needed for the project, next we used that to pump and purify the water, the salt was processed and sold as sea salt and caustic ( the base for most acids) to store the excess energy we incorporated electrolysis and produced hydrogen and oxygen along with fuel cells to provide storage and backup power, basically a bigger example of what NASA does for the space program.
Products generated for sale- energy, water, salt, oxygen, hydrogen, caustic. Now the factory is energy positive generating more energy than they can use so they sell the excess electricity, they produce more water than they can use so they sell that also, then they sell the oxygen, excess hydrogen, salt, and caustic. In five years the whole project is paid off, getting funding was easy because we were able to show all these new production streams on top of their primary product, which was plastics.
Economics makes the whole thing possible and as an added bonus, its carbon neutral and sustainable.
My point is that by wasting nothing we mimicked the oil industry and beat fossil fuels at their own game. That’s the message I want to get out there, we can compete, we can transform, we can change the world as we know it. Anyway thanks for listening because I get so frustrated sometimes that people just don't understand the true possibilities.
God bless you both, you do so much for this forum and you are both so intelligent, you help me remember that there is hope.
Health, Happiness and Success
That said we do have a few things going on right now that can help move alternative energy and sustainable water forward in our society, First will be the rising cost of oil and gasoline this summer, the closer we get to $5.00 a gallon the more people will begin calling for alternatives because the cost of everything will go up, my fear is that the negative impact on our economy and President Obama may be tremendous and if the other side gets the presidency and congress, well it honestly scares me to even consider it.
The second factor will be global change, fact is we pay some of the lowest energy prices in the world, may not seem that way but compared to Europe and Asia we have it easy, those countries cannot afford to go under just because we are not getting on the board.
Why, well first because oil is needed for almost every product we use today, from aspirin to asphalt, cosmetics to computers,, helmets to heart valves, safety glass to shower curtains, umbrellas to zip lock bags, plastics, fertilizer, soaps, and on and on and on, all are made from petroleum based products. Right now gasoline makes up 50% of every barrel of oil, diesel another 20%, that remaining 30% forms the backbone of chemical that make up our world today.
Burning that oil for fuel and transportation is a waste and as oil rises in price and becomes more limited, more and more is being diverted from the things we need. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not happy that all this stuff comes from oil, as a person trained in science I am personally convinced that the rates of cancer and many other diseases have increased due to this dependence. But from a purely economic sense we are running out of time. Governments will have to transform their countries to energy from alternative energy if we are to keep our modern world as we know it.
Here is another economic factor, my degree’s are in laboratory science, one of the things that I learned very early on was that the chemicals that make our modern world possible are because nothing is wasted when it comes to oil, every bi-product is used from natural gas and propane to oil coke, and petroleum jelly.
That epiphany lead me to the fact that to make alternative energy possible economically we would have to do the same with alternative energy, in other words waste nothing. This became the foundation for my business, and for almost 15 years that message of economic viability by using everything has been the keystone of our business. Has the message become widespread, honestly no, we are still a very small fish in a great ocean, yet as prices increase it becomes cheaper and more logical to transform to alternative energy and sustainable water practices to generate a huge number of marketable bi-product beyond the energy and water provided.
Here is an example I spoke about a few months ago. In San Antonio Texas we did a project using solar, wind, and water from a brackish aquifer, its salt content was about 1/3 that of sea water. First we designed the alternative energy to provide 30% over what was needed for the project, next we used that to pump and purify the water, the salt was processed and sold as sea salt and caustic ( the base for most acids) to store the excess energy we incorporated electrolysis and produced hydrogen and oxygen along with fuel cells to provide storage and backup power, basically a bigger example of what NASA does for the space program.
Products generated for sale- energy, water, salt, oxygen, hydrogen, caustic. Now the factory is energy positive generating more energy than they can use so they sell the excess electricity, they produce more water than they can use so they sell that also, then they sell the oxygen, excess hydrogen, salt, and caustic. In five years the whole project is paid off, getting funding was easy because we were able to show all these new production streams on top of their primary product, which was plastics.
Economics makes the whole thing possible and as an added bonus, its carbon neutral and sustainable.
My point is that by wasting nothing we mimicked the oil industry and beat fossil fuels at their own game. That’s the message I want to get out there, we can compete, we can transform, we can change the world as we know it. Anyway thanks for listening because I get so frustrated sometimes that people just don't understand the true possibilities.
God bless you both, you do so much for this forum and you are both so intelligent, you help me remember that there is hope.
Health, Happiness and Success
#5
Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:46 PM
Demographers refer to my generation as the "Silent Generation."
. . . We lived during the Depression and World War II.
. . . There was no Fast-Food, Computers, Microwaves, TV's, Store-bought Clothes, Gasoline.
. . . We couldn't afford anything, or if we could, it was rationed and
. . . we didn't have the coupons for it.
. . . We did everything, with nothing, and our motto was "Can Do!"
Want to see what it was like?
. . . live without electricity,
. . . no Fast-Food, Computers, Microwaves, TV's, Store-bought Clothes, Gasoline.
WAKE UP! Without electricity, life as we know it, disappears . . .
. . . without renewable energy for electricity,
. . . we use up the only planet we've got.
. . . We lived during the Depression and World War II.
. . . There was no Fast-Food, Computers, Microwaves, TV's, Store-bought Clothes, Gasoline.
. . . We couldn't afford anything, or if we could, it was rationed and
. . . we didn't have the coupons for it.
. . . We did everything, with nothing, and our motto was "Can Do!"
Want to see what it was like?
. . . live without electricity,
. . . no Fast-Food, Computers, Microwaves, TV's, Store-bought Clothes, Gasoline.
WAKE UP! Without electricity, life as we know it, disappears . . .
. . . without renewable energy for electricity,
. . . we use up the only planet we've got.
#6
Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:58 AM
E3 wise, on 09 April 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:
God bless you both, you do so much for this forum and you are both so intelligent, you help me remember that there is hope.
Health, Happiness and Success
informative, and we're so happy you are here.
#7
Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:09 PM
Ed's demographers may call you the silent generation but in my mind and a lot of others we call you the greatest generation, your generation’s commitment to freedom, your selfless sacrifice and sense of justice are benchmarks of what made America great during the past 50 years. I am very proud of your generation and I honestly feel that the values your generation exemplified are sorely missing in many younger people today.
I also want to thank you for your commitment to this forum; it is a testament to how committed your generation can be to something they believe in. I read your blogs every day; I find them enlightening, thought provoking and timely. Your time, effort and caring work is greatly appreciated and although others may consider you a silent segment of our society, I consider you and the members of your generation a testament to all that is good and precious in our world today, I salute you and am proud to say I have the pleasure of knowing you. In my book you are an awesome person. Like Hayden, shortpoet, mariaandrea, tigerlilly, yonder, Gina and so many others you are making a difference, that Can Do attitude comes through every day and I just want to say thank you to you and everyone who works so hard for this forum for all you do.
Health, Happiness, Success
Be Blessed
Lois
I also want to thank you for your commitment to this forum; it is a testament to how committed your generation can be to something they believe in. I read your blogs every day; I find them enlightening, thought provoking and timely. Your time, effort and caring work is greatly appreciated and although others may consider you a silent segment of our society, I consider you and the members of your generation a testament to all that is good and precious in our world today, I salute you and am proud to say I have the pleasure of knowing you. In my book you are an awesome person. Like Hayden, shortpoet, mariaandrea, tigerlilly, yonder, Gina and so many others you are making a difference, that Can Do attitude comes through every day and I just want to say thank you to you and everyone who works so hard for this forum for all you do.
Health, Happiness, Success
Be Blessed
Lois
#9
Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:44 PM
I think solar will be a big winner but we need leadership. Where is the 100 million rooftop initiative? 
There will not be any free solar panel giveaway nor should there be, nothing is "free" from the govenment. You can either pay for solar panels or pay for solar panels and the huge bureaucracy required to administer the "giveaway" program. It's cheaper just to buy them yourself! 
Government has already done what it needed to do anyway, a 30% tax credit for solar and $7,500 towards a BEV. The rest is up to us.
Personally I don't like the idea of paving over our deserts with silicon when there are millions of roofops sitting idle. Solar is very inefficient so it takes a lot of area to generate a lot of juice. That means a lot of desert or a lot of rooftops, we have a lot of rooftops!
If I were president I would immediately announce a national initiative. I'd then call on all groups, (Greenpeace, Sierra club, Elks, Moose, Masons, even the NRA), to volunteer their time and expertise to do a coast to coast DIY effort. I'd then enlist Wal-Mart to negotiate massive orders of panels, inverters, etc. I'd then initiate a low interest loan program to cover up front costs. FInally, I'd demand fast track permits, $100 or less flat fee, and make sure that all utilities offered net metering and bought electricity for the same amount they sell it.
I'd also bug Planet Green to have Steve Thomas do a weekly install program, alternating new construction and retrofit so people could see what it entailed. What we are lacking is a "snowball effect", that's what makes leadership so important right now.
I'm a boomer as well and a retired electrical engineer and systems architect, (high reliabiliby/high availability). I put 10KW on my roof in Oct. Last march I averaged 33.8KWH/day, thanks to net metering this March I averaged 3.8KWH/day. That's a 89% decrease! This month I expect to go negative. It works up here a few miles from Canada so it should work everywhere else in the lower 48.
P.S. People will not be screaming for alternative fuels, they'll be screaming for cheaper oil. While solar is on the cusp of viability, electric cars are still 5-10 years out. Even a decade from now we will still be buying gas cars and since they can last 20 years or more, that means we need oil for that long. We may see nat gas make some inroads but I think BEV;s will win out in the end;
I think it would be a huge mistake to hobble oil until BEV's are competitive in cost and convenience. The reason our recovery is so anemic now is due to high energy costs which punish the poor the most, Don't shoot the old horse until you can ride the new one!
There will not be any free solar panel giveaway nor should there be, nothing is "free" from the govenment. You can either pay for solar panels or pay for solar panels and the huge bureaucracy required to administer the "giveaway" program. It's cheaper just to buy them yourself! Government has already done what it needed to do anyway, a 30% tax credit for solar and $7,500 towards a BEV. The rest is up to us.
Personally I don't like the idea of paving over our deserts with silicon when there are millions of roofops sitting idle. Solar is very inefficient so it takes a lot of area to generate a lot of juice. That means a lot of desert or a lot of rooftops, we have a lot of rooftops!
If I were president I would immediately announce a national initiative. I'd then call on all groups, (Greenpeace, Sierra club, Elks, Moose, Masons, even the NRA), to volunteer their time and expertise to do a coast to coast DIY effort. I'd then enlist Wal-Mart to negotiate massive orders of panels, inverters, etc. I'd then initiate a low interest loan program to cover up front costs. FInally, I'd demand fast track permits, $100 or less flat fee, and make sure that all utilities offered net metering and bought electricity for the same amount they sell it.
I'd also bug Planet Green to have Steve Thomas do a weekly install program, alternating new construction and retrofit so people could see what it entailed. What we are lacking is a "snowball effect", that's what makes leadership so important right now.
I'm a boomer as well and a retired electrical engineer and systems architect, (high reliabiliby/high availability). I put 10KW on my roof in Oct. Last march I averaged 33.8KWH/day, thanks to net metering this March I averaged 3.8KWH/day. That's a 89% decrease! This month I expect to go negative. It works up here a few miles from Canada so it should work everywhere else in the lower 48.
P.S. People will not be screaming for alternative fuels, they'll be screaming for cheaper oil. While solar is on the cusp of viability, electric cars are still 5-10 years out. Even a decade from now we will still be buying gas cars and since they can last 20 years or more, that means we need oil for that long. We may see nat gas make some inroads but I think BEV;s will win out in the end;
I think it would be a huge mistake to hobble oil until BEV's are competitive in cost and convenience. The reason our recovery is so anemic now is due to high energy costs which punish the poor the most, Don't shoot the old horse until you can ride the new one!
#10
Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:01 AM
Phil, on 10 April 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:
I think solar will be a big winner but we need leadership.
If I were president I would immediately announce a national initiative.
If I were president I would immediately announce a national initiative.
As for the role of government, nothing is moving forward with this do-nothing congress,
let alone sustainable energy programs.
The president can push some things through with an executive order, but those can be reversed in the future.
Laws have to be passed for lasting effects.
As long as big oil and coal have a choke hold on the policy makers via lobbyists and $ contributions, we
won't have a sustainable energy program in place.
Look at all the gop hands rubbing together with glee over the Solyndra thing. They were beyond happy
that it failed.
And not just because it was a renewable company but because Obama was for it and OMG! tax dollars
were wasted.
Yeah right. How many millions of tax dollars go to the oil industry via subsides that they KEEP in place?
And we didn't hear a peep from them with the oil spill in the gulf happened, did we?
Why weren't they livid?
Because it lines their pockets.
If Obama said he liked vanilla ice cream, they'd all say it was the worse food on the planet and should be banned.
#11
Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:46 PM
I don't think you need much from goverment, just the low interest loan part and a leader would be able to enlist private philanthropists to fill that gap. My plan, for the most part, bypasses government.
Congress will always be do nothing in an election year, nothing new there!
I don't think the GOP were happy that it failed, everyone knew to the month when it would fail. They were happy that Obama stepped in it by backing it even though he was told it would fail. I think Obama has been making a huge mistake handing out money to losers. They still are losers and it punishs the firms that are doing it right. He should be slammed for Solyndra, that was a really dumb move.
What happens to "XYZ" solar that is making a small profit without government assistance when Obama gives half a billion to Solyndra? Solyndra was going to fail anyway, but in the mean time you've punished XYZ with false competition. You are rewarding failure and punishing success. That is not a winning stragety.
I gues I'll disclaim that I've worked for corporations my entire career, so you'll understand where I'm coming from. You have a choice, you can back winners or back losers. Obama is backing losers and the taxpayers are paying the price. Backing oil companies is backing winners and that saves tax payer money.
What makes more sense, throwing billions at companies that go bankrupt, or throwing it a companies that employ thousands, give retirees like me a good life, and are critical to not only prosperity but national security?
Big oil and coal don't have a hoid on policy or there would be no 30% tax credit nor $7,500 auto credit!
Republicans were complaining, democrats were complaining, independents were complaining about the spill. Obama got more from BP than anyone in the last two decades has. Face it, their all in it!
Bush spent more on alternative energy research than any of his predicessors, the $2,000 limit was removed from the 30% tax credit on his watch, he put 10KW of solar on the white house, and all the BEV's and many hybrids, including the Volt, now hitting the market all started on his watch. All that from a conservative republican oil man!
http://www.sma.de/en...hite-house.html It was also conservative republican McCain that suggested offering a multibillion X prize for any company that could double battery performance.
Meanwhile wind farms and solar farms are sitting idle because environmental groups are suing to stop transmission lines from linking them to the grid, and other environmentalists are attacking wind turbines for killing birds. This isn't a black/white, us vs they issue, it's far more complex.
It's obvious you hate big oil and that's fine, but we will need it for probably half a century more and there is no way around it. I don't love it or hate it, I just accept it as a necessity. I guess it's the engineer in me. True scientists don't love or hate data, they just accept it and move on. I own a ton of Exxon stock not because I love the company but because it is a good investment. When it ceases to be I'll dump it.
Yes if Obama liked vanilla, republicans would say chocolate was much better, and if Bush said he liked vanilla democrats would call him a racist and say chocolate was better! It's called politics as usual and shame on you for not knowing that!
Again, it think both sides are screwing up because that's what government does, screw up. I wish it weren't true but it is reality. In the end though I do blame Obama because he should lead and nobody can block something the private sector handles on it's own.
Don't you think that if he called in Gates, Buffet, Soros, Inmelt, the Google CEO, etc. and asked them to fund a national low interest loan program they'd say yes? Don't you think if he asked Sierra club, Greenpeace, SEIU, etc. to volunteer their efforts in a national DIY movement, they would? Don't you think if he approached Wal-Mart, told them about his initiative, and offered them the chance to be the point company for the major components, they'd do it? None of that requires any government action, only leadership and initiative.
Congress will always be do nothing in an election year, nothing new there!
I don't think the GOP were happy that it failed, everyone knew to the month when it would fail. They were happy that Obama stepped in it by backing it even though he was told it would fail. I think Obama has been making a huge mistake handing out money to losers. They still are losers and it punishs the firms that are doing it right. He should be slammed for Solyndra, that was a really dumb move.
What happens to "XYZ" solar that is making a small profit without government assistance when Obama gives half a billion to Solyndra? Solyndra was going to fail anyway, but in the mean time you've punished XYZ with false competition. You are rewarding failure and punishing success. That is not a winning stragety.
I gues I'll disclaim that I've worked for corporations my entire career, so you'll understand where I'm coming from. You have a choice, you can back winners or back losers. Obama is backing losers and the taxpayers are paying the price. Backing oil companies is backing winners and that saves tax payer money.
What makes more sense, throwing billions at companies that go bankrupt, or throwing it a companies that employ thousands, give retirees like me a good life, and are critical to not only prosperity but national security?
Big oil and coal don't have a hoid on policy or there would be no 30% tax credit nor $7,500 auto credit!
Republicans were complaining, democrats were complaining, independents were complaining about the spill. Obama got more from BP than anyone in the last two decades has. Face it, their all in it!
Bush spent more on alternative energy research than any of his predicessors, the $2,000 limit was removed from the 30% tax credit on his watch, he put 10KW of solar on the white house, and all the BEV's and many hybrids, including the Volt, now hitting the market all started on his watch. All that from a conservative republican oil man!
http://www.sma.de/en...hite-house.html It was also conservative republican McCain that suggested offering a multibillion X prize for any company that could double battery performance.Meanwhile wind farms and solar farms are sitting idle because environmental groups are suing to stop transmission lines from linking them to the grid, and other environmentalists are attacking wind turbines for killing birds. This isn't a black/white, us vs they issue, it's far more complex.
It's obvious you hate big oil and that's fine, but we will need it for probably half a century more and there is no way around it. I don't love it or hate it, I just accept it as a necessity. I guess it's the engineer in me. True scientists don't love or hate data, they just accept it and move on. I own a ton of Exxon stock not because I love the company but because it is a good investment. When it ceases to be I'll dump it.
Yes if Obama liked vanilla, republicans would say chocolate was much better, and if Bush said he liked vanilla democrats would call him a racist and say chocolate was better!
It's called politics as usual and shame on you for not knowing that! Again, it think both sides are screwing up because that's what government does, screw up. I wish it weren't true but it is reality. In the end though I do blame Obama because he should lead and nobody can block something the private sector handles on it's own.
Don't you think that if he called in Gates, Buffet, Soros, Inmelt, the Google CEO, etc. and asked them to fund a national low interest loan program they'd say yes? Don't you think if he asked Sierra club, Greenpeace, SEIU, etc. to volunteer their efforts in a national DIY movement, they would? Don't you think if he approached Wal-Mart, told them about his initiative, and offered them the chance to be the point company for the major components, they'd do it? None of that requires any government action, only leadership and initiative.
#12
Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:11 AM
I won't argue, I'm not here for that. But you'll never convince me that bush was a good president. I know better.
Have a good day.
http://inhabitat.com...-america-story/
(Edit-link added)
Have a good day.
http://inhabitat.com...-america-story/
(Edit-link added)
#13
Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:05 AM
I ran across this map that shows we are making good progress towards renewable energy.
(We need all the encouragement we can get.)
"The maps, compiled with data from the US Energy Information Administration, document the growth of renewable energy
over the last 10 years (without counting hydroelectric power).
Yes, the darkening blue is thanks to widespread adoption of solar, wind, and, to a lesser extent, geothermal and biomass.
Those blue spots reveal some encouraging progress, especially when paired with news that coal-fired generation
was down to a three decade-low in 2011.
There are some powerful success stories in there—particularly in states like Iowa and Texas, where there was scant clean energy before the 00s brought a boom in wind power.
Indeed, wind accounted for the bulk of the growth in the renewable sector nationwide in the past decade.
And Maine, already a leader in renewables in 2001, now gets 27% of its power from renewables; the largest share in the nation."
http://www.eia.gov/t...=5750&src=email
http://www.treehugge...y-us-state.html
(We need all the encouragement we can get.)
"The maps, compiled with data from the US Energy Information Administration, document the growth of renewable energy
over the last 10 years (without counting hydroelectric power).
Yes, the darkening blue is thanks to widespread adoption of solar, wind, and, to a lesser extent, geothermal and biomass.
Those blue spots reveal some encouraging progress, especially when paired with news that coal-fired generation
was down to a three decade-low in 2011.
There are some powerful success stories in there—particularly in states like Iowa and Texas, where there was scant clean energy before the 00s brought a boom in wind power.
Indeed, wind accounted for the bulk of the growth in the renewable sector nationwide in the past decade.
And Maine, already a leader in renewables in 2001, now gets 27% of its power from renewables; the largest share in the nation."
http://www.eia.gov/t...=5750&src=email
http://www.treehugge...y-us-state.html
#14
Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:21 AM
Shortpoet-GTD, on 12 April 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:
I ran across this map that shows we are making good progress towards renewable energy.
(We need all the encouragement we can get.)
"The maps, compiled with data from the US Energy Information Administration, document the growth of renewable energy
over the last 10 years (without counting hydroelectric power).
(We need all the encouragement we can get.)
"The maps, compiled with data from the US Energy Information Administration, document the growth of renewable energy
over the last 10 years (without counting hydroelectric power).
If most of the population of any country, will be found on it's coasts,
. . . than that should be where the greatest demand for ENERGY would be found and
. . . the East coast of the USA is surprising FREE of renewable ENERGY.
Why do you surpose that is?
#16
Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:31 PM
E3 wise, on 08 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:
Most of all we must reshape a narrative to bring together many different people with differing views together to reshape our thinking and transform out world from a use up and throw away mentality to a world that works to maximize our resources.
There are those who will say that this cannot be done, but I know they are wrong. How do I know that this is all possible, simple, because I am a child of the space generation.
There are those who will say that this cannot be done, but I know they are wrong. How do I know that this is all possible, simple, because I am a child of the space generation.
I totally agree with this. We should stop exhausting our natural resources and invest on renewable energy instead. There's too much change in the environment already, too much destruction, too much disaster; we should not turn a blind eye on them and pretend that the whole world is still doing fine. We couldn't just ignore what's happening - it's all over the news and all around us. Now is the time to take a stand and do something that will help nature.
I know a lot of people would just shrug it off and say, "Nah, don't bother. It won't make a difference." But that's exactly why we're not progressing - people's mentality that they won't make a difference. It's depressing, really, that a lot of people won't even try.
It is now our job to advocate green living. We should teach and inform those who choose to be blissfully ignorant about the world's condition. Let us help them make their first step towards green living, and prove them that they can really make a big difference.
#17
Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:45 PM
Eds great question also thanks for the graphic because It really helps visualize how each state is doing developing their alternative energy. To answer your question regarding the East Coast; I think one factor is the available space for alt energy integration. The solution I feel is the integration of generative power into the existing homes, businesses and infrastructure.
Unlike Europe that has focused on generative power in this configuration the United States government has pushed to maintain the standard utility production models. This means that you have to have more land and space available this has been much easier in the west. Another factor is that the western states have provided more incentives to help reduce the cost to early adopters.
I know that incentives too many in the forum is considered a dirty word. I however respectfully disagree and here is why. Firstly like all mass produced items the cost goes down as production increases. For early adopters who are leading the way it can be, cost prohibitive to be ahead of the game. Another issue is that we provide incentives in this country to many different businesses from manufacturing, to IT, to airlines and the energy industry. The reason is to keep costs in line with countries that have a bigger competitive advantage due to lower labor, insurance and tax costs.
The aerospace industry is a great example; the United States has lead in the production of aerospace because of technology and the ability through incentives to compete. This in turn feeds our economy by generating jobs and income that far outweighs the incentives given.
In the west incentives are a strong driver in the East and especially south east areas this is much less prevalent and so these states lag behind. My home state of Florida is one of the worst in providing incentives. This means that the jobs and benefits from a forward looking economy based on alternative energy is missed.
Compare this to my husbands home state of Texas which although a leader in fossil fuel production, understands that alternative energy is the future and will be a major driver of economic growth in the future. The huge increase in Wind production has been a direct result of incentives to the industry. Texas is receiving billions in Taxes from electrical generation from Wind and solar, that money is much greater than the incentives and a large portion goes to the counties in which these facilities are based. This provides tax money for schools, roads, infrastructure and medical needs.
In priming the economic engine with incentives the states that do so are receiving much more in income and tax revenue tha given in incentive and that I think is a big reason for the Wests leading role. Finally a big driver is the overall base cost of the energy, out west energy can cost a little more causing people to look toward alternatives( by this i Mean average Kw hour costs, The North east is more expensive where as the mid eastern areas are not. But this is changing also.
Unlike Europe that has focused on generative power in this configuration the United States government has pushed to maintain the standard utility production models. This means that you have to have more land and space available this has been much easier in the west. Another factor is that the western states have provided more incentives to help reduce the cost to early adopters.
I know that incentives too many in the forum is considered a dirty word. I however respectfully disagree and here is why. Firstly like all mass produced items the cost goes down as production increases. For early adopters who are leading the way it can be, cost prohibitive to be ahead of the game. Another issue is that we provide incentives in this country to many different businesses from manufacturing, to IT, to airlines and the energy industry. The reason is to keep costs in line with countries that have a bigger competitive advantage due to lower labor, insurance and tax costs.
The aerospace industry is a great example; the United States has lead in the production of aerospace because of technology and the ability through incentives to compete. This in turn feeds our economy by generating jobs and income that far outweighs the incentives given.
In the west incentives are a strong driver in the East and especially south east areas this is much less prevalent and so these states lag behind. My home state of Florida is one of the worst in providing incentives. This means that the jobs and benefits from a forward looking economy based on alternative energy is missed.
Compare this to my husbands home state of Texas which although a leader in fossil fuel production, understands that alternative energy is the future and will be a major driver of economic growth in the future. The huge increase in Wind production has been a direct result of incentives to the industry. Texas is receiving billions in Taxes from electrical generation from Wind and solar, that money is much greater than the incentives and a large portion goes to the counties in which these facilities are based. This provides tax money for schools, roads, infrastructure and medical needs.
In priming the economic engine with incentives the states that do so are receiving much more in income and tax revenue tha given in incentive and that I think is a big reason for the Wests leading role. Finally a big driver is the overall base cost of the energy, out west energy can cost a little more causing people to look toward alternatives( by this i Mean average Kw hour costs, The North east is more expensive where as the mid eastern areas are not. But this is changing also.
#18
Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:48 AM
E3 wise, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:
To answer your question regarding the East Coast; I think one factor is the available space for alt energy integration.
This means that you have to have more land and space available this has been much easier in the west.
This means that you have to have more land and space available this has been much easier in the west.
are so essential.
They don't need hundreds of "empty" acres. The acres are already stuffed with houses. It's getting homeowners
to install them en masse that is the issue there.
And hydro power is available there too. (The second map included those stats, but not the first map.)
Tidal power hasn't caught on in a big way yet, although some cities are utilizing rivers to produce electricity.
#19
Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:41 AM
The map from 2001-2011 looks like a big wave, heading from the West Coast to the middle of the country.
. . . (except for Arizona - which has a lot of Sun, being stopped by political problems,
. . . Kentucky and Ohio - I don't know what's up with them)
Most of the East Cost hasn't changed and Mass. has been fighting for 10 years,
. . . to keep windmills out of the ocean off of Cape Cod - Not In My Back Yard)
. . . (except for Arizona - which has a lot of Sun, being stopped by political problems,
. . . Kentucky and Ohio - I don't know what's up with them)
Most of the East Cost hasn't changed and Mass. has been fighting for 10 years,
. . . to keep windmills out of the ocean off of Cape Cod - Not In My Back Yard)
#20
Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:38 AM
eds, on 13 April 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:
The map from 2001-2011 looks like a big wave, heading from the West Coast to the middle of the country.
. . . (except for Arizona - which has a lot of Sun, being stopped by political problems,
. . . Kentucky and Ohio - I don't know what's up with them)
Most of the East Cost hasn't changed and Mass. has been fighting for 10 years,
. . . to keep windmills out of the ocean off of Cape Cod - Not In My Back Yard)
. . . (except for Arizona - which has a lot of Sun, being stopped by political problems,
. . . Kentucky and Ohio - I don't know what's up with them)
Most of the East Cost hasn't changed and Mass. has been fighting for 10 years,
. . . to keep windmills out of the ocean off of Cape Cod - Not In My Back Yard)
"she felt threatened." She's 100% against renewables.
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