108 replies to this topic

[eds]

In 14 1/2 seconds,
. . . the sun provides as much energy to Earth,
. . . as humanity uses in a day.

In 88 minutes,
. . . the sun provides as much energy to Earth,
. . . as humanity uses in a year.

In 112 hours,
. . . the sun provides as much energy to Earth,
. . . as much energy as is contained in all
. . . proven reserves of oil, coal, and natural gas on this planet,
. . . with almost no greenhouse gas emissions.

07-10-2014 Source:  Solar: Did You Know?

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[Besoeker]

It's just the collecting and storing we need to sort out.

[E3 wise]

Actually it's pretty simple on cloudy days my panels produce 8 kW of energy that is stored in 12 - 225 amp batteries.  On a really good sunny day we produce 22 kW.  When my batteries are charged all the energy goes to the grid to power others homes.  The utility pays me money and when they go down,well I have enough energy for 4 days stored,  so I recharge my batteries and my house runs everything .  My house uses 6 to 8 kW per day so no matter what we have power.

[Besoeker]

E3 wise, on 10 July 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Actually it's pretty simple on cloudy days my panels produce 8 kW of energy that is stored in 12 - 225 amp batteries.  On a really good sunny day we produce 22 kW.  When my batteries are charged all the energy goes to the grid to power others homes.  The utility pays me money and when they go down,well I have enough energy for 4 days stored,  so I recharge my batteries and my house runs everything .  My house uses 6 to 8 kW per day so no matter what we have power.

I was actually responding to your point about total insolation.
The numbers are big but the arithmetic is easy. Average insolation is about 0.25kW.m^2, the area is 5.1*10^8 km^2 and the population is around seven billion. Crunch the numbers and that's an average of 18MW per person.  Hugely more than we use.

Collecting it is a different matter. Most of it falls on water - the globe is more than two thirds covered by water and huge expanses of land is uninhabitable. But there is no denying that insolation is there in abundance. After all, the sun is where all our energy comes from/came from.

On collecting and storing it.
You say that, in your case, it is pretty simple. I understand what you are doing and the numbers* stack up. Your circumstances allow you to do that. The space to install the PV panels and the space for the batteries and conversion equipment. And your frugal 8kWh a day. That's highly commendable. But simply not possible for most.

About a year ago my son bought a flat in London (at about half a million US$ equivalent). He has nowhere, no roof, no garden, nowhere he can fit PV panels. Not even a balcony. His situation is by no means unique. Much/most of the world's population lives in urban areas, often very high density.



It simply isn't a practical proposition for many. Far less simple.


*Numbers

You mention 225 amp batteries.
I guess you mean 225Ah but even that without the voltage doesn't give energy storage capability.
And your house uses 6 to 8 kW per day. The kW is power. You pay for kWh. That's energy. It's an important distinction.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am, in no way, shape or form, denigrating solar or any other form of renewable energy. We need to grasp them with both hands. But we need to understand the scale of the task - and the limitations.

There is a saying i use, possibly one that I coined.
We can only go from where we are, not where we we think we should have been

[E3 wise]

You can not move forward without taking a few steps.  I can only speak fot the United States, but there are millions of acres of land in conservation. A recent study that will be released by the NREL  found that a full 70 % of the United States energy could be powered by hybrid solar and wind using between 5 to 7 % of that state and federal land.

Look I am not saying it does not take commitment and work, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.  This forum is dedicated to championing renewable energy, not nit picking its adoption.  Costs are down, technology has improved, things like solar windows are coming on line, so let's keep the big picture here, renewables help the planet, doing nothing is destroying it.  If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem.  image.jpg   124.45K   2 downloads

Which is why we innovate Renewable Solutions here is an example Republican Congressman Ted Deutch being schooled on Solar energy and job creations here in the United States.  We had a great discussion and he committed to doing more to champion renewables in Congress, and since he is my Congressman I am going to hold him to those promises by working on his citizens committee and steering group for better, easier solar adoption solutions like this.

 image.jpg   102.02K   1 downloads

Easy to install solar that tracks the sun, takes little space and pays for itself quickly.  Very small footprint, could be put next to highways, in parks, backyards, on rooftops, and so on, look for solutions and you find them.

[Besoeker]

E3 wise, on 11 July 2014 - 02:58 AM, said:

You can not move forward without taking a few steps.  I can only speak fot the United States, but there are millions of acres of land in conservation. A recent study that will be released by the NREL  found that a full 70 % of the United States energy could be powered by hybrid solar and wind using between 5 to 7 % of that state and federal land.

Look I am not saying it does not take commitment and work, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.  This forum is dedicated to championing renewable energy, not nit picking its adoption.  Costs are down, technology has improved, things like solar windows are coming on line, so let's keep the big picture here, renewables help the planet, doing nothing is destroying it.  If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem. image.jpg

You seem to have taken my post the wrong way.
I am totally pro renewable energy. And energy conservation. Most of my professional life has been in the business of reducing energy consumption. On an industrial scale. On one installation on one site it saves as much energy in a day as you use in three years.

I don't play with this stuff - I do it for real. You will thus understand that suggestions of nit picking don't sit well with me,

[Shortpoet-GTD]

See also-

http://www.nytimes.c...alue.html?_r=1


from our thread here-
http://www.altenergy...ities-together/

[eds]

When asked "was COAL a RENEWABLE,"
. . . here is the response.

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[Besoeker]

eds, on 11 July 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

When asked "was COAL a RENEWABLE,"
. . . here is the response.

I find that more depressing than surprising.
Ignorance, ambivalence, and indifference abound.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Besoeker, on 11 July 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I find that more depressing than surprising.
Ignorance, ambivalence, and indifference abound.

You mean the same folks that believe that Superman can crush a lump of coal in his hand and make a diamond
for Lois Lane? Those folks?

[Besoeker]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 11 July 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

You mean the same folks that believe that Superman can crush a lump of coal in his hand and make a diamond
for Lois Lane? Those folks?

Not my kind of stuff but there is a tiny soupçon of truth in that one. Coal and diamonds are both carbon albeit in different forms.
If our fictional superhuman hero could exert superhuman pressure on that lump of coal and subject it to intense heat he could potentially have formed a diamond. Surely not too much to ask of him......

I remember from school physics, gozillions of years ago, our science teacher remarking that carbon formed the softest solid, graphite, and the hardest, diamond.

A bit of trivia for you that I don't suppose will come up in the pub quiz any time soon.......

[E3 wise]

Well here is a good idea. We have been talking about putting solar in urban area how difficult it is, well here is one wy

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[Besoeker]

E3 wise, on 11 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well here is a good idea. We have been talking about putting solar in urban area how difficult it is, well here is one wy

It's an excellent idea and where we can, we should.
But it isn't always an option. Single storey, street level level is rare (I don't know of any) in UK town centres. For example, the town where I work has two main car parks, both of which are multi-storey and the top storey is uncovered. No roof.

I suppose a solar panel roof could be added. You'd get the area of one parking for each ten or a dozen car parking spaces if you take into account of the spaces directly below it on the lower floors. So nowhere nearly as effective as the example in your picture.

I'm not being negative about solar PV. Just pragmatic. Urban here, and in many other towns and cities, is compact.

Think of The Bronx for example.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

E3 wise, on 11 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well here is a good idea. We have been talking about putting solar in urban area how difficult it is, well here is one wy

They installed solar on the covered parking lot at the local VA with those. Shade for cars, power for the equipment
needed in the hospital.
http://www.altenergy...king-lot-roofs/

[eds]

Solar Roadways, speaks at TEDx.

[Besoeker]

eds, on 18 July 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Solar Roadways, speaks at TEDx.

Didn't we have this before in a different guise?

https://www.google.c..._sm=93&ie=UTF-8


And Wattsy:

http://wattsupwithth...gogo-scam-ever/

[eds]

Elon Musk (of Tesla car fame) produced and sold one electric car,
. . . for every 2,857 cars produced and sold in the world last year.

He hoped, by releasing his company's electric car patents to the world, and
. . . making this information open source,
. . . he could speed up electric car development.

He was commenting on the vast scale of our infrastructure, investment in fossil fuels and their use.
. . . This investment and infrastructure is not going away anytime soon.

07-19-2014 Source:  Carbon Military Industrial Complex

[mikedall]

Good information! That's why we need to go solar power systems instead of coal power to protect our environment.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

E3 wise, on 11 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well here is a good idea. We have been talking about putting solar in urban area how difficult it is, well here is one wy

E3 wise, on 11 July 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Well here is a good idea. We have been talking about putting solar in urban area how difficult it is, well here is one wy

Forgive me if this looks a bit spammy but the company I buy my vitamin supplements from has a complete
solar facility for his production of products.
http://www.procapsla...nt/history.aspx

[eds]

8 electric-powered household items:

2 hours of TV: .5 kWh
Dishwasher: 1.8 kWh a load
Refrigerator: 4.3 kWh a day
Freezer: 4.8 kWh a day
Central air conditioner: 11 kWh a day
Water heater: 12 kWh a day
Electric furnace: 36 kWh a day

07-31-2014 Source:  your-daily-energy-use-vs-africas

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