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Hydrogen fuel

alternative fuels water use

 
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#1 Shortpoet-GTD

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 05:54 AM

There is a good deal of buzz around Hydrogen fuel.

Since these boards are for discussions, what are your thoughts-pro's and con's of H as
an alternative energy source?

Some info links-some pro, some con.

http://www.alternati.../hydrogen-fuel/

http://www.scienceda...- ScienceDaily)

http://green.autoblo...-cell-vehicles/

http://www.afdc.ener...s/hydrogen.html

That should get you started. :tongue:

#2 still learning

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:36 AM

A partial quote from the first page of your first link sums things up well, I think : "Hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy carrier because it takes a great deal of energy to extract it from water. It is useful as a compact energy source in fuel cells and batteries. Many companies are working hard to develop technologies that can efficiently exploit the potential of hydrogen"      If an inexpensive way of producing hydrogen without using fossil fuels is figured out, then hydrogen should have a real place as a transportation fuel/energy carrier.

#3 still learning

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:20 AM

The current Wikipedia article on "Hydrogen economy" seems to treat the subject pretty well.  Looks like the practical economics of actually using hydrogen as a transport fuel are much closer to acceptable than only a few years ago.  http://en.wikipedia....ydrogen_economy Regarding the price of hydrogen, see http://www.h2carblog.com/?p=461   Hydrogen to be used a transport fuel usually assumes the use of fuel cells to oxidize the hydrogen and capture the energy as electricity, used to run an electric motor to move a vehicle.  The cost of fuel cells has been a difficulty that has been worked on a lot, with some success.  Still expensive though, with one so-far insoluble problem being the cost of the apparently necessary platinum catalyst.  Maybe some help for that problem hinted at here:  http://www.pnl.gov/n...se.aspx?id=1051   It's a long way from the lab to the road, but maybe someday....

#4 Shortpoet-GTD

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:53 PM

Thanks for the links. :biggrin:

#5 E3 wise

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:46 PM

Ah what a difference 10 years make.  Now we have fuel cells that no longer need platinum as a catalysis, this lowered the cost, size and increased efficiency. Likewise the advent of compressor less hydrogen concentration had done the same, reduced cost, increased efficiency.  Germany is a great example of using hydrogen as a storage medium for alternative energy using wind, solar, geothermal, and waste.  Currently 12 hydrogen fueling stations are online with another 50 to be completed by January 1 2016.

Hydrogen is indeed an energy carrier just like electricity, as with all electrical generation producing the electricity takes some other source.
The one fact about generating hydrogen form renewables is the ability to produce multiple products, hydrogen, oxygen, deionized water as a bi product of electrical generation, sea salt and caustic if using sea water, this poly generation drives down the overall cost and allows faster payoff.

The important issue is that because of the water recovered after electric generation, hydrogen as a energy carrier uses the least amount of water loss of any electrical generation with the exception of hydroelectric.  So is hydrogen a silver bullet- no, but as a part of a well rounded alternative energy generation plan hydrogen provides a great energy storage medium to compliment batteries, capacitors, flywheels and other energy storage options.

#6 Shortpoet-GTD

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:37 AM

View PostE3 wise, on 23 April 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

The important issue is that because of the water recovered after electric generation, hydrogen as a energy carrier uses the least amount of water loss of any electrical generation with the exception of hydroelectric.  
I guess too many web-sites have gone the route of fixed news because many that we click on for information
on hydrogen fuel all say a lot of water is wasted.

If it's being recovered and safely, it's our responsibility here to correct that false notion.
Thanks.

#7 E3 wise

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:08 PM

In a fuel cell car  the only bi product is water vapor, just like trees and plants, meaning that fuel cell cars in metropolitan areas can to a small degree act just like green roof and trees to release water and cool the air helping reverse the heat island affect of big cities.

In Germany where hydrogen is being used as a storage for alternative energy, after the electricity is produced 90% to 93% is recovered as deionized water which is captured filtered again and then sold to manufactures needing ultra clean deionized water, like computerchip and DVD manufactures, since it is a bi product of electrical generation, it can be on average 40% cheaper than water that is processed  three to four times to get it to that ultra clean deionized water! finally the other market is in the medical area where deionized water is required for many lab tests and as the base for interventions fluids like glucose or D5W IV fluids.

So you store your energy by taking water, splitting it, producing 99.999% pure oxygen and 99.999% pure hydrogen! both of which are sold to medical, manufacturing, transportation, electrical generation, then when your done you get 90% or more of your water back! making as we said solar, wind, biofuels , water treatment and anaerobic digesters all store able as hydrogen for cars and energy.

For the last five years more patents have been issued for fuel cell, hydrogen generation and storage than all other renewable patents combined, that in itself shows that many as we do feel hydrogen and fuel cells an important energy carrier like electricity itself.

Finally in closing six different types of fuel cells use other energy socks as fuel but because there is no combustion greatly reduce green house emissions from fossil fuels, so even non hydrogen fuel cells can save water and greatly reduce emissions.

#8 Shortpoet-GTD

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:34 AM

That's great. It's good to know so many are moving toward renewables. :biggrin:

#9 eds

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:48 AM

A Hydrogen powered venetian waterbus,
. . . that is silent, and nearly twice as efficient as a
. . . standard diesel-fueled waterbus.

2014-04-28 Source: DesignBoom

Attached Files


#10 johnygreen

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:20 PM

If scientists find a cheap and efficient way to use water as a fuel then all problem would be solved, as there are plethora of water in our planet. At least transportation and pollution problem would be solved. We would also be able to conserve our fossil fuel and resoureces upto a large extent. I strongly advocate the use of water as fuel.

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