9 replies to this topic

[Tim the plumber]

The IPCC represents the "consensus" of scientists on the global warming issue. I think they "paint it black" myself but I will go with their figures.

The IPCC says that the worste case scenarion is for a 59cm sea level rise by 2100. That's with a 6.4^oc temperature rise. They have since revised this down to a 3.2^oc rise.

Last centuary saw a sea level rise of 18cm. This one could be at worste twice as bad. We should expect to lose twice as many cities as last centuary unless we do some work on the sea defences.

What am I denying?

[eds]

Every web forum has people on it, with differing opinions.
. . . Discussions can get heated, from time to time,
. . . but the members usually agree on the
. . . Basic Reason that the website exists for.
From time to time, some people come to a website,
. . . just to stir up trouble, and not contribute anything positive to the forum.

When it appears that the person disagrees with everyone,
. . . based on vague statements or opinion,
but not on hard evidence,
. . . or found in the peer-reviewed literature.

Example:  "Last centuary saw a sea level rise of 18cm."  

. . . When I see a statement like that, I ask myself "Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why" proof do you have?
Who measured that?
What is the source of that statement?
When was it measured?
Where was it measured?
How do we know we can trust these people.
Why didn't the person making this statement,
. . . quote some source on the internet,
. . . so that I can get a better point of view of where their coming from.

Finally, if you just don't agree with what people say on one forum,
. . . then why waste you time,
. . . why not just go to a forum, where people agree with you.

[still learning]

eds, on 03 March 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Example:  "Last centuary saw a sea level rise of 18cm."  

. . . When I see a statement like that, I ask myself "Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why" proof do you have?
Who measured that?

If it matters, check out http://www.cmar.csir...ew_hundred.html

[eds]

still learning, on 03 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

If it matters, check out http://www.cmar.csir...ew_hundred.html

Very good example!!  Thanks Still Learning.  Do you have the idea, Tim the plumber

[yoder]

@Tim the plumber  I am wondering if a little back story might be in order.  I looked over your previous threads and don't see anyone mentioning you as a denier or anything similar.  Was this on a different forum?

[Phil]

I think extreme opinions on both sides of the issue are over the top.  We are affecting the environment but it is not the end of the world if we don't stop all coal fired plants tomorrow.  The sea rise number looks to be correct from what the chart shows.  We can all respect each other's opinion even if we don't agree with it.  A spirited debate is always a healthy endeavor, trouble making for it's own sake is not. If you only allow those who agree with you to be on a forum it will become a rather sterile useless waste of bandwidth.  There is no growth without debate, there is no understanding without interaction.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Phil, on 04 March 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I think extreme opinions on both sides of the issue are over the top.  We are affecting the environment but it is not the end of the world if we don't stop all coal fired plants tomorrow.  The sea rise number looks to be correct from what the chart shows.  We can all respect each other's opinion even if we don't agree with it.  A spirited debate is always a healthy endeavor, trouble making for it's own sake is not. If you only allow those who agree with you to be on a forum it will become a rather sterile useless waste of bandwidth.  There is no growth without debate, there is no understanding without interaction.

Agree. But so many of the deniers that stop by here are sarcastic and rude.

You and I don't agree on too many things either, but you're always civil about it. (And I appreciate that.)

Deniers don't seem to care if they p*ss off everyone with their nasty comments.
(I no longer read the comments on HP green because of that; they're out in droves on that site.)

[Phil]

I agree.  The source of much of our troubles is a lack of respect for each other.  Name calling and condescension have replaced honest debate, generating heat instead of light.  That's why I get a little testy when political hate speech rears it's ugly head here!    Unfortunately it seems much easier to build enemies than allies.

[Dustoffer]

Really, there should be no debate at all, just action to reduce emissions the amount needed, when needed, to avoid total crossing of tipping points in nature of unstoppable positive feedback loops.

http://www.wundergro...-spike-20130306

[Phil]

I checked your link and right next to the pollution picture an ad for Kingsford charcoal popped up! :<)

As the article rightly states, as the US and other first world countries are reducing carbon output while developing nations, particularly China, (and India), are drastically increasing their output due to their heavy dependence on coal.  The developing world is responsible for the entire increase and will be going forward.

As the article also states, we will not keep the temp rise below 2 degrees by any stretch of the imagination as long as China, et al, continue on their present path.  World climate is out of our hands.