5 replies to this topic

[FamilyTreeClimber]

I thought this news item was fascinating.  It's from 2011, so others may have already read it.

The Oriental Hornet can make it's own electricity.  It can do this with solar much like plants.  This is causing excitement among researchers who are studying solar energy.

According to the article this is promising and may lead to new solar solutions. "Now with hornet showing how to efficiently convert the sun’s rays into electricity, there is hope for other biological and living beings to follow suit and produce electricity themselves."

I'm not sure what they mean by "biological and living beings follow suit".  Insects couldn't possible create enough electricity for usage, could they?

Scientists are now trying to replicate how the hornet creates energy.  They haven't had much success at it though.

Here's the article in case anyone is interested in the research:
http://www.alternati...et-solar-power/

[still learning]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 07 July 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I thought this news item was fascinating.  It's from 2011, so others may have already read it.......

....Here's the article in case anyone is interested in the research:
http://www.alternati...et-solar-power/

First I've read of this.  Seems remarkable, wondered why haven't heard of before.
Googled a bunch.

The author of the article at the alternative energy website read way too much into what the original research paper actually says.

It's not the only one though, if you google "wasp energy" or several other phrases you find similar articles on quite a few websites published in late 2010 or early 2011, often with identical paragraphs included (lots of unacknowledged copying [plagarism])

Nothing that I find published on the subject since.

The abstract of the original research article in Naturwissenschaften is here:  http://rd.springer.c...0114-010-0728-1
Nothing there about a hornet making or using electricity.

The actual full-length article is here: http://blogs.discove...es/fulltext.pdf
The December 2010 article at Discovery News seems to stick with what's in the paper, doesn't make stuff up about wasps producing electricity. http://news.discover...n-its-body.html

The Naturwissenschaften paper does refer to "harvesting solar energy" but doesn't say that electricity is produced.  "Harvested" solar energy could be in the form of heat or stored chemical energy.  The article doesn't actually show that the wasp does "harvest" solar energy.  Read it.  They do refer to constructing a solar cell in the lab (efficiency 0.335%) that includes a pigment found in the wasp's cuticle, but, again don't actually claim that the wasp does produce electricity from sunlight.

Quoting from the introduction of the Naturwissenschaften article "...may suggest that some form of solar energy harvesting is performed in thde cuticle.  The aim ofthis article is to explore this intriguing possibility by exploring the morphology of the cuticle and its biophysical characterization."  Quoting from the end of the article "Future work will focus in investivating the complex layered structure observed in the cuticle cross-sections and its possible role in solar energy harvesting."

A huge problem hypothesizing that a wasp or any other organism produces electriciy from sunlight is trying to explain what the organism would do with it.
You can find examples of organisms producing electric energy from chemical energy (food)  Fish use electricity for sensory purposes (the lateral line system) or for stunning other creatures (as electric eels do).  Nervous systems are partly electrochemical in the way they work.  Plants do harvest sunlight, converting it to chemical energy and you can argue that the mechanism is partly electrical, you do find reference to the "electron transport chain."   Ions are certainly moved around by all cells, so in a sense electricity is involved.  Still though, what would a wasp do with actual electricity?  Muscles aren't run with electricity.  Not going to evolve a PV cell with nohing for it to do.

Harvesting energy is one thing, harvesting it in the form of electricity is another.

So how did the word electricity get into the alternative energy website article?  Bad journalism, I guess.  Somebody conflating energy and electricity maybe.

Near as I can tell, the lead author of the Naturwissenschaften article hasn't published since 2010 and has changed affiliations from a university in Tel Aviv to a university in Singapore.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

That seems to be true for many "news" articles these days, and not just this item.

Journalism is essentially gone (there are a few good exceptions.)
They read it somewhere and re-post it on their site as fact rather than investigate it's validity and before you
know it, the story becomes "fact."

It's a disturbing trend.
http://www.altenergy...-at-face-value/

Hell, still learning does more research on many of the articles posted here (to keep us all honest and accurate)
then most "news" organizations. (And it is a pain in the behind to be called out-but
if it questions the validity-accuracy of posts, it's worth it.)

[Hardison]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 07 July 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

I thought this news item was fascinating.  It's from 2011, so others may have already read it.

The Oriental Hornet can make it's own electricity.  It can do this with solar much like plants.  This is causing excitement among researchers who are studying solar energy.

According to the article this is promising and may lead to new solar solutions. "Now with hornet showing how to efficiently convert the sun’s rays into electricity, there is hope for other biological and living beings to follow suit and produce electricity themselves."

I'm not sure what they mean by "biological and living beings follow suit".  Insects couldn't possible create enough electricity for usage, could they?

Scientists are now trying to replicate how the hornet creates energy.  They haven't had much success at it though.

Here's the article in case anyone is interested in the research:
http://www.alternati...et-solar-power/

That's a great article. The things I learn on this site.

On the other hand, I really hope that they aren't trying to map the hornet's DNA to find the specific sequence responsible and placing it in other animals. I'm a little worried about that being the next step. I studied cellular biology and genetics and it's that type of thinking that made me decide to leave the field.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

still learning, that's why it's good that we discuss these things.  The article, or at least it's conclusion, seemed fantastical to me.  In one way, I could see that researching the process would be helpful.  But, it seem to me they were concluding that we'd be using these insects to create solar energy.  I can't see how that is possible.  Sometimes when I post this stuff it is because I find it difficult to believe.  So, I am glad when someone with better research skills than I have can weed through it and find if it's true.  Thanks!

Shortpoet, it seems that what passes for journalism on the web is one person writes an article, then many websites copy it verbatim.  It's copyright infringement and not a form of flattery.  What's worse is when real news websites and professional bloggers/writers do it.  It's rife in the political sphere.  You'll see someone draw a conclusion, then it get replicated 1,000 times as if it is fact. I guess the website I linked to would be one of the violators.  I've read their stuff before. I'm going to have to be careful of what they publish now.

Hardison, Taking what they learn and putting into a computer brain is one thing.  Transferring it to other animals is weird and borders on unethical.

[Hardison]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 10 July 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

still learning, that's why it's good that we discuss these things.  The article, or at least it's conclusion, seemed fantastical to me.  In one way, I could see that researching the process would be helpful.  But, it seem to me they were concluding that we'd be using these insects to create solar energy.  I can't see how that is possible.  Sometimes when I post this stuff it is because I find it difficult to believe.  So, I am glad when someone with better research skills than I have can weed through it and find if it's true.  Thanks!



Parker, Taking what they learn and putting into a computer brain is one thing.  Transferring it to other animals is weird and borders on unethical.

I completely agree, but it's being done everyday.  It also could just be me jumping to conclusion and I really, truly hope so.