Let’s start with a few numbers, as of 2011 average America's oil consumption, was calculated to be 18.8 million barrels per day (MBD), according to the EIA. That usage puts the U.S. atop the list of the world's largest oil consumers by a wide margin. Indeed, U.S. demand is more than that of the next four nations combined: Japan, Russia and rising economic powers China and India.
Today, oil meets 37 percent of US energy demand, with 71 percent directed to fuels used in transportation – gasoline, diesel and jet fuel. (Institute for Energy Research) Needless to say this has a huge effect on our economy and our environment. This is why the incorporation of oil shale and tar sands into our overall energy portfolio has been pushed so heavily over the last couple of years by the oil industry. Meaning that transportation could actually get even more dirty and unhealthy for both people and the environment.
But what about the promise of electric cars. Today Tesla motors unveiled The Model S at its Fremont, Calif., factory. After four years of work by Tesla engineers, fueled by $465 million in U.S. government loans and $220 million in Wall Street money. Elon Musk, Tesla's co-founder and CEO, has vowed to make the Model S the best car in the world, and hopes to sell 20,000 a year -- at prices between $54,700 up to $105,400. Far outside the price range of the average American.
Yet beyond the price tag one of the most hopeful aspects has been the increased range available. Tesla designed the Model S as an EV from the start. With up to 285 miles in the edition launching today is made possible by 7,000 AA-sized lithium-ion cells bolted into panels under the passenger compartment, holding 85 kWh of energy in the top-end edition, or about as much energy as a typical American house uses in three days.
Charging times vary depending on the battery pack's state-of-charge, its overall capacity, the available voltage, and circuit breaker amp rating (current). Using high amperage, 20 kW, 240 VAC line, the range can be recharged by 62 miles (100 km) for every hour of charging, equivalent to about five hours to fully charge the 85 kWh size batteries.
The car's battery pack can also be charged using lower amperage 240 VAC or 110/120 VAC lines, but charging times increase accordingly. With commercial-grade equipment, an 80% charge could be obtained with a 45-minute Quick Charge, a far cry from the current recharging times and ranges of the Chevy volt or Nissan Leaf.
The company has promised to unveil an alternative energy charging system later this month. Meaning that electric cars could finally fulfill the ultimate goal, getting American transportation off the oil addiction and on a sustainable pathway. Look for news on these advances to be forth coming.
As far as price this first generation Model S will defiantly be for the higher income brackets, but as with all new technology prices may fall significantly, only time will tell. It is important to remember that everything from the first microwaves, DVD players and big screen TV’s started out with hefty price tags, coming down significantly as mass production kicked in, but at an estimated 20,000 cars a year production, it may be a while.
Personally I am hopeful that this may be a first step toward a clean and sustainable transportation system from alternative energy for the United States and world because in the end if we are to truly tackle climate change we will need an electric car in every garage.
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20
An Electric Car in Every Garage?
Started by E3 wise, Jun 22 2012 10:42 PM
169 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:19 AM
When Tesla and others start mass producing them in an affordable range for most pocketbooks, that would
be a good thing
but-
it is essential that we start erecting the smart grid across the country.
NIMBY fighting will be fierce though and none of it will happen until the current crop of do-nothings
are booted out of office.
They won't even say yes to asphalt roads for gas guzzlers now, so they surely won't say yes to a
renewable system for e-cars.
But I do give Tesla kudos for it.
Thanks for the post.
be a good thing
but-
it is essential that we start erecting the smart grid across the country.
NIMBY fighting will be fierce though and none of it will happen until the current crop of do-nothings
are booted out of office.
They won't even say yes to asphalt roads for gas guzzlers now, so they surely won't say yes to a
renewable system for e-cars.
But I do give Tesla kudos for it.
Thanks for the post.
#3
Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:47 AM
I would agree with Shortpoet that we need a grid across the country to support electric cars. I think a lot more people would be more likely to own one if there was a grid to support them. Personally, I would love to own a Tesla! Right now, it is just way too expensive for my budget. I do think that the prices will come down in the next few years for electric cars as more automakers start to produce them. Maybe someday in our lifetime we will see the day when all cars are electric. That would be wonderful!
#4
Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:11 AM
Electric car in every garage all over the world seems far from reality mainly because of its cost.
Although anything could happen in the future especially if there are really efforts from people as well as supports from the government or companies to make it a reality someday.
Although anything could happen in the future especially if there are really efforts from people as well as supports from the government or companies to make it a reality someday.
#5
Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:56 AM
I think it's a great idea, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There are a number of places near me where you can recharge an electric car. Since, I have become interested in hybrid cars, I see them everywhere. Not a day goes by that I don't see at least 5 or 6 hybrid cars. Change will come eventually.
#6
Posted 24 June 2012 - 07:14 AM
I wrote this because I wanted to highlight what I think are the four biggest issues with electric cars coming into the main stream.
1. Cost – Tesla will probably always be on the high end for most consumers but that does not mean that the technology will be theirs alone. A great example of this is Mercedes- Benz 5 & 7 series which we can all agree are some of the most expensive cars made.
Yet- If you go back and look at all the options that have become standard features on cars today such as Air Bags, antilock brakes, GPS systems, keyless entry and on and on you will see that all these features started with Mercedes –Benz, but became part of the widespread market within five years on a top – down market model with higher end manufactures like Lexus and Cadillac next then over a couple of years on to Honda, Toyota, Chevy and Ford and so on. Meaning that the technology of increased range and quicker charging times, becoming more available in less expensive car manufactures.
2. Range – This one is huge also, most Americans are not going to buy a car that goes 100 miles and takes a long time to charge. Tesla is a game changer because of the type of battery system being used and the ability to let consumers chose the size of the battery pack to range option. Now 200 to 260 miles is more than double what others less expensive makes have available but once again I believe that this will also work into the market more quickly than many think with 3 to 5 years being the point where other manufactures make this option available. But there is still a way to go.
Manufactures that I have spoken with really believe that the range needed to get Americans to seriously consider electric cars is the 325- 400 mile average range, for a lot of reasons that run the gambit of varying driving speeds, personal preference and psychological norm of what normal cars have today. If consumers know that they can go three to five days without a charge, like they do today with filling up, then they will be more inclined to make the change.
3. Charging times, it’s no secret that the American military has been working with several manufactures to incorporate faster charging into the ability of electric vehicles. Our military is the fourth biggest user of fossil fuels in America, factor in the rest of the federal government infrastructure such as the Postal Service, FBI, Home Land Security and all the rest and they become #1.
Military and Federal Government sectors want and need quick charging electric vehicles just as much if not more than average consumers, case in point the Army is currently testing 3 systems like what Tesla and other manufactures are using ( lithium- ion, and some more exotic types) using a 30 minute/300 mile recharge. It is third generation and although more expensive just like what Tesla and others are working on. Once again three to five years and we could be seeing this go to the main stream.
(Note- like many of you, who keep up with these advances, we have all seen stories about 20 minute recharging or batteries that last forever, makes great news but may be 10 to 15 years from mass production, so yes I am aware of the stories, if a little dubious about how soon they will hit the mass market.)
4. Infrastructure – Short Poet brought up a great point that leads to my last big hurdle, the digital or smart grid. Without the ability to manage millions of cars recharging at different times during the day or night, theoretically electric cars could overwhelm our current electrical system as more consumers buy them.
Currently there are approximately 225 million cars in the United States. A recent study by the Rocky Mountain Institute and backed up by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory estimates that 4-5 million electric cars would equal the total electric grid usage of the United States on a one day basis. Meaning that by integrating smart grid technology electric car users could sell excess electricity back to the grid during peak usage time, basically making electric cars part of the solution for user needs.
It also means that if electric cars are being charged by utilities using fossil fuels that emissions and climate change could theoretically increase even faster, which is why charging from alternative sources is so critical if electric cars are to become the norm. One utility that services Austin Texas has been a model of how to accomplish a successful transition to alternative energy by providing electric cars the ability to charge specifically from wind and solar under a special program for electric cars, which I posted a few month back.
Austin Energy is providing unlimited “electric fuel” from 100% GreenChoice® renewable energy at more than 100 plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) charging stations for less than $5 per month.
Drivers in and outside of Austin can save on fuel costs by going electric and by purchasing a pre-paid Plug-in EVerywhere™ network card for $25, which allows unlimited public station charging for six months.
This is being Beta tested by a couple of California utilities and one in Connecticut, using smart technology and programs like this make electric cars a multi- solution for reducing fossil fuels and emissions and moving to alternative energy as a long term multi level solution for Americas energy needs.
So Tesla’s Model S may be out of my price range but the advances that are coming from its usage may make the ability to have an electric car in every garage a reality. Maybe faster than we think.
Jeff for E3 Wise
1. Cost – Tesla will probably always be on the high end for most consumers but that does not mean that the technology will be theirs alone. A great example of this is Mercedes- Benz 5 & 7 series which we can all agree are some of the most expensive cars made.
Yet- If you go back and look at all the options that have become standard features on cars today such as Air Bags, antilock brakes, GPS systems, keyless entry and on and on you will see that all these features started with Mercedes –Benz, but became part of the widespread market within five years on a top – down market model with higher end manufactures like Lexus and Cadillac next then over a couple of years on to Honda, Toyota, Chevy and Ford and so on. Meaning that the technology of increased range and quicker charging times, becoming more available in less expensive car manufactures.
2. Range – This one is huge also, most Americans are not going to buy a car that goes 100 miles and takes a long time to charge. Tesla is a game changer because of the type of battery system being used and the ability to let consumers chose the size of the battery pack to range option. Now 200 to 260 miles is more than double what others less expensive makes have available but once again I believe that this will also work into the market more quickly than many think with 3 to 5 years being the point where other manufactures make this option available. But there is still a way to go.
Manufactures that I have spoken with really believe that the range needed to get Americans to seriously consider electric cars is the 325- 400 mile average range, for a lot of reasons that run the gambit of varying driving speeds, personal preference and psychological norm of what normal cars have today. If consumers know that they can go three to five days without a charge, like they do today with filling up, then they will be more inclined to make the change.
3. Charging times, it’s no secret that the American military has been working with several manufactures to incorporate faster charging into the ability of electric vehicles. Our military is the fourth biggest user of fossil fuels in America, factor in the rest of the federal government infrastructure such as the Postal Service, FBI, Home Land Security and all the rest and they become #1.
Military and Federal Government sectors want and need quick charging electric vehicles just as much if not more than average consumers, case in point the Army is currently testing 3 systems like what Tesla and other manufactures are using ( lithium- ion, and some more exotic types) using a 30 minute/300 mile recharge. It is third generation and although more expensive just like what Tesla and others are working on. Once again three to five years and we could be seeing this go to the main stream.
(Note- like many of you, who keep up with these advances, we have all seen stories about 20 minute recharging or batteries that last forever, makes great news but may be 10 to 15 years from mass production, so yes I am aware of the stories, if a little dubious about how soon they will hit the mass market.)
4. Infrastructure – Short Poet brought up a great point that leads to my last big hurdle, the digital or smart grid. Without the ability to manage millions of cars recharging at different times during the day or night, theoretically electric cars could overwhelm our current electrical system as more consumers buy them.
Currently there are approximately 225 million cars in the United States. A recent study by the Rocky Mountain Institute and backed up by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory estimates that 4-5 million electric cars would equal the total electric grid usage of the United States on a one day basis. Meaning that by integrating smart grid technology electric car users could sell excess electricity back to the grid during peak usage time, basically making electric cars part of the solution for user needs.
It also means that if electric cars are being charged by utilities using fossil fuels that emissions and climate change could theoretically increase even faster, which is why charging from alternative sources is so critical if electric cars are to become the norm. One utility that services Austin Texas has been a model of how to accomplish a successful transition to alternative energy by providing electric cars the ability to charge specifically from wind and solar under a special program for electric cars, which I posted a few month back.
Austin Energy is providing unlimited “electric fuel” from 100% GreenChoice® renewable energy at more than 100 plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) charging stations for less than $5 per month.
Drivers in and outside of Austin can save on fuel costs by going electric and by purchasing a pre-paid Plug-in EVerywhere™ network card for $25, which allows unlimited public station charging for six months.
This is being Beta tested by a couple of California utilities and one in Connecticut, using smart technology and programs like this make electric cars a multi- solution for reducing fossil fuels and emissions and moving to alternative energy as a long term multi level solution for Americas energy needs.
So Tesla’s Model S may be out of my price range but the advances that are coming from its usage may make the ability to have an electric car in every garage a reality. Maybe faster than we think.
Jeff for E3 Wise
#7
Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:58 PM
"We've lost the TV industry, the radio industry, the PC industry. They all went to Asia and never came back.
. . . You let the car industry go through the same cycle, and it's never coming back."
. . . Source: Washington Post, December 7, 2008
June 2012, India's Tata will design and build an electric car, for less than $20,000.- . . . Source: Tata Electric,
. . . Indonesian Scientists: 93 Mile Electric Car . . . Source: Indonesian
. . . and China's Southern Power Grid, will build, charge and switch batteries, . . . Source: Southern Power Grid
. . . with Israel's Shai Agassi's California Companies, "Better Place" designs, which BIG 3 companies rejected.
. . . You let the car industry go through the same cycle, and it's never coming back."
. . . Source: Washington Post, December 7, 2008
June 2012, India's Tata will design and build an electric car, for less than $20,000.- . . . Source: Tata Electric,
. . . Indonesian Scientists: 93 Mile Electric Car . . . Source: Indonesian
. . . and China's Southern Power Grid, will build, charge and switch batteries, . . . Source: Southern Power Grid
. . . with Israel's Shai Agassi's California Companies, "Better Place" designs, which BIG 3 companies rejected.
#8
Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:27 PM
China just jumped into the picture, when they recently purchased the bankrupt Saab automaker. They have plans to make electric cars as well. If the competition heats up, there may be more electric cars in the future than we imagine. Hopefully the grid will be in the planning as well. I certainly hope it all comes to fruition. Thanks for the news on the Tesla front.
#9
Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:03 AM
With the electric taxi service that is actually running in this city's historic downtown, is expected that electric cars begin to pick up in popularity.
For now the local university has made available an electric bus that is serving students, teachers and visitors at the campus.
For now the local university has made available an electric bus that is serving students, teachers and visitors at the campus.
#11
Posted 25 June 2012 - 02:02 PM
Not ready for a few years but my next car will be electric. Hopefully by the time I'm ready they will be price/performance competitive with gas cars.
Utilities will implement smart grid on their own because it saves money, no government interference required. Even out in the boonies where I live they have no meter readers, it's all digitized. In addition you can voluntarily have some of your appliances controlled by the utility for load balancing. We aren't exacty PG&E up here!
Of course that doesn't stop utilities asking for a handout to do what they would otherwise!
Utilities will implement smart grid on their own because it saves money, no government interference required. Even out in the boonies where I live they have no meter readers, it's all digitized. In addition you can voluntarily have some of your appliances controlled by the utility for load balancing. We aren't exacty PG&E up here!
Of course that doesn't stop utilities asking for a handout to do what they would otherwise!
#12
Posted 25 June 2012 - 04:19 PM
When there is evidence of a trend starting as there is with electric automobiles, there will be more companies getting on the band wagon. Which means more competition, which hopefully will mean price competition as well. There are government credits involved as well, to help with the cost. Good luck with your progress.
#13
Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:18 PM
They definitely have to increase the driving time or it would hurt the economy I think. If you could only drive 200 miles without having to stop somewhere for a prolonged period of time, people are less likely to take road trips to various places. I know that I wouldn't want to charge the car every couple hundred miles. I would also be concerned about how much it costs to charge them.
For somebody like me, I sometimes only drive my car 1-2 hours a week (sometimes 1 day a week), it may not be very useful since the battery may not hold the charge for a long time if not used. I am all about being environmentally friendly, but I am not ready to accept the electric car for a few reasons.
It is cool that they have come a long way, I just don't see it costing less then driving a gas car. If it doesn't cost less, many people will not be buying them.
For somebody like me, I sometimes only drive my car 1-2 hours a week (sometimes 1 day a week), it may not be very useful since the battery may not hold the charge for a long time if not used. I am all about being environmentally friendly, but I am not ready to accept the electric car for a few reasons.
It is cool that they have come a long way, I just don't see it costing less then driving a gas car. If it doesn't cost less, many people will not be buying them.
#14
Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:40 PM
I agree with your reasons, I am a hopeful skeptic also, but I also think the issues you discuss will bei solved. Like most people cost, range, recharging times, and charging locations are all reasons I have not bought yet. Here is something interesting though to achieve 100 miles in a gas car you spend on average of $ 12.00 if you average 25 miles per gallon. Chare an electric at home and it averages $1.83 to $3.00 depending on the utility, so thats one big differance in EV's favor. Thanks for posting.
#15
Posted 28 June 2012 - 11:02 PM
I think if they could reach 250 mi. with a half hour charge and readily available charging stations that might be doable. Eat breakfast and drive 4-5 hours to stop for lunch. Charge while eating, Then back on the road for another 4-5 hours to stop for dinner. Again charge while eating. Head out for 4-5 hours then find some place to spend the night.
I could live with that.
I could live with that.
#16
Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:50 PM
If the technology being developed for the military were made avalible today you would have your wish. Your numbers are right on and match what consumers are asking for. The technology is coming, slowly, but with that said all good things take time and hard work.
#17
Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:59 PM
True, until not long ago all these developments were strictly restricted to federal experiments or special units.
Today we are seeing that new technologies are made available for the citizenship.
We have little advances in substituting regular cars for electric cars, but I hope one fine day we truly have an electric car in every garage indeed.
Today we are seeing that new technologies are made available for the citizenship.
We have little advances in substituting regular cars for electric cars, but I hope one fine day we truly have an electric car in every garage indeed.
#18
Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:57 PM
E3 wise, on 28 June 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:
I agree with your reasons, I am a hopeful skeptic also, but I also think the issues you discuss will bei solved. Like most people cost, range, recharging times, and charging locations are all reasons I have not bought yet. Here is something interesting though to achieve 100 miles in a gas car you spend on average of $ 12.00 if you average 25 miles per gallon. Chare an electric at home and it averages $1.83 to $3.00 depending on the utility, so thats one big differance in EV's favor. Thanks for posting.
I thought they would have cost more then that to charge, not bad! I expected to see a big increase in the electric bill. I think the cars are a bit expensive to repair tho. My ex has a hybrid and they told him a tiny part that was by or in the trans was going to cost over $7000 to fix. I was there when the dealership told him and my mouth just dropped! The car was not in driving condition until fixed either, there was a knock and the car just stopped instantly (no warning of any problems.) He decided to let the dealership keep the car and he bought a new gas car. The car makers don't tell you that the batteries for these cars cost more then a gas engine would ever cost you and that there is a great chance you will have to replace them long before an engine. I think a lot of work needs to be changed before I would even consider buying one. But that is my opinion and worry about them.
#19
Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:31 AM
The dirtly little secret of hybrids is you are paying for a gas car AND the bulk of an electric car as well, plus the complexity of integrating them together. With the Volt you ARE paying for both. That translates to costs not being viable without subsidies.
In contrast, a pure EV is much simpler than a gas car, no spark plugs, no emission controlls, no exhaust system, no oil changes, no complex transmission, much simpler motor with only one moving part, etc. Batteries are the only issue with EV's.
In contrast, a pure EV is much simpler than a gas car, no spark plugs, no emission controlls, no exhaust system, no oil changes, no complex transmission, much simpler motor with only one moving part, etc. Batteries are the only issue with EV's.
#20
Posted 30 June 2012 - 04:37 PM
Phil, on 30 June 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:
The dirtly little secret of hybrids is you are paying for a gas car AND the bulk of an electric car as well, plus the complexity of integrating them together.
I'm impressed that Toyota (and now others) have gotten the hybrids to work well.
I've always been kind of aware of the added complication and added weight and added expense and I expected reliability problems, if nothing else. I've seen only a couple of Prius inoperable, waiting for a tow. I'm impressed. Actually though, all modern cars are more reliable than cars were long ago. Anybody else remember vapor lock or flooding?.
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