24 replies to this topic

[fancyfingers]

While watching the morning news while drinking my coffee and reading my email, the news reported was commenting on the latest guidelines set out by the WHO to help people keep their risk down of getting brain cancer from cell phone usage. With wireless items everywhere, we are virtually surrounded by microwaves being bounced from one cell tower to another to a device whether it is a cell phone, tablet, notebook or computer. Wouldn't this be considered air pollution too?

[still learning]

fancyfingers, on 11 June 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

we are virtually surrounded by microwaves ...... Wouldn't this be considered air pollution too?

Not air pollution, not in my opinion anyway, not air pollution as the EPA defines it.

Maybe you'd like to propose a word to use.  We have noise pollution and light pollution.

We are surrounded by microwaves all the time.

Also continously surrounded energy/photons/waves all across rest of the electromagnetic spectrum, of which microwaves are only a small part.  That specrum runs continously from below AM radio through FM radio frequencies through microwaves through to infrared then visible light and on to ultraviolet and X-ray and gamma rays.  There are no distinct divisions between those different parts of the electromagnic spectrum except what humans arbitrarily decide to make.  Effects do vary across the spectrum, of course, but these effects kind of fadeinto one another  Take X-rays for instance, increased exposure does increase cancer risk, but as the frequency decreases (wavelength increases) down to ultraviolet, the cancer risk becomes localized to just the skin, and as the frequency decreases more to visible light, even that risk fades to nothing.  

Microwaves are what cooks food in microwave ovens, so there certainly is a danger of tissue damage when the intensity of microwaves are high enough.  Micrewave ovens are interlocked for good reason so you can't run them with the door open.  (Read a sciencefiction story that included an incident where a person wired around the door interlock and stuck thier head in and turned it on. Lost conciousness and collapsed, fell out of oven, but too late. Ghastly prolonged death.)
Tissue heating thought to be the only possible mechanism that could induce cancer, and that doesn't actually seem to do so.  According to WHO and others anyway.  See http://www.who.int/m...heets/fs193/en/

I personally don't think the upcoming WHO report will find any connection between cellphone (or other microwave) use will and cancer causation.  Trouble is, once something gets put onto an official possible carcinigen list, it never seems to come off.  I can imagine part of the argument now "well, maybe you can't find a connection yet, but 4G service, using higher frequencies, hasn't been in use long enough so that we can really tell.  Might be an as yet unknown effect at those frequencies."

I'm personally not worried.  I'm not a cellphone zombie though.

Actually, in a sense, there could be a sort of pollution, interference between frequencies.  The there are international agreements regarding frequency allocations in the RF anf microwave bands.  http://en.wikipedia....ency_allocation

[Shortpoet-GTD]

[dconklin]

I know they do post warnings in the cell phone pamphlets and they also list what each phone emits.  I am not sure exactly how bad it is for somebody, but I can't imagine it being that great.  I don't talk much on the phone, but I do text.  

Microwaves have always scared me.  I very rarely use mine, maybe a couple times a month it will go on for microwave popcorn.  We call it the popcorn popper instead of microwave since that is all it is ever used for.  I don't trust that they are fully safe myself and probably never will trust them.  I won't let my kids in the kitchen when I am using it either.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

I think they're talking about microwaves- transmissions not microwave ovens.
http://en.wikipedia....ve_transmission

[still learning]

dconklin, on 12 June 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Microwaves have always scared me.  I very rarely use mine.......I won't let my kids in the kitchen when I am using it either.

Sounds to me like you shouldn't have a microwave oven.

I expect that you could be presented all the rational arguments showing that there is no danger from an unmodified microwave oven, but you wouldn't be convinced.

Similarly, some will never be convinced that cellphones aren't a cancer risk.

Similarly, name any risk, real or not, and there are always people who won't look at the evidence and use reason to form views on the matter.    "Don't confuse me with the facts"

[Shortpoet-GTD]

dconklin, on 12 June 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Microwaves have always scared me. I don't trust that they are fully safe myself and probably never will trust them.

Years ago when they first hit the market, there may have been cause for concern-designs not "tight" enough
and perhaps some waves escaped but they're ok now-have been for years.
But I will admit there are a lot of scare tactic websites out there screaming 'don't use them or you'll die.

[artistry]

Radiation pollution, if you stand in front of a microwave oven long enough, you are dead with your insides cooked. I have a friend who knew some guy who did such a stupid thing. There are radiation waves given off by your television, minute as they might be. So the amount of the radiation would be the point.

[still learning]

artistry, on 13 June 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Radiation pollution..... if you stand in front of a microwave oven long enough, you are dead with your insides cooked. I have a friend who knew some guy who did such a stupid thing. There are radiation waves given off by your television, minute as they might be. So the amount of the radiation would be the point.

I think your friend was pulling your leg.  (A reasonably polite way of saying that I don't believe it.)  It would be possible if the cover interlock were wired around and the oven run with the cover open.

The kind of radiation given off by CRT devices (older TV's and monitors) are "soft" X-rays. not microwaves.  A very slight amount because the CRT's are made with (surprise) leaded glass, lets through almost no X-rays.

Microwaves affect tissue by heating where X-rays can actually ionize atoms, breaking chemical bonds in cells, cause celllular damage, occasional DNA damage in cells, very occasionally the DNA damage results in cancer.  

I'm pretty sure that there are safety standards that manufacturers adhere to for both microwave ovens and TV's/monitors.  Don't know if they are strictly voluntary or are mandated by law.

Yes, the dose always matters.

[joeldgreat]

Im speaking of the microwave oven at homes. I don't think it will cause any problems if you are expose in short periods of time. It is because the radiation emitted by the oven is non-ionizing which is different from the ionizing radiation caused by x-rays. But I think it you had been exposed our a period of time (say the oven is leaking or malfunctioning), then there might be a long term effect.

[joeldgreat]

Im speaking of the microwave oven at homes. I don't think it will cause any problems if you are expose in short periods of time. It is because the radiation emitted by the oven is non-ionizing which is different from the ionizing radiation caused by x-rays. But I think it you had been exposed our a period of time (say the oven is leaking or malfunctioning), then there might be a long term effect.

[dissn_it]

Getting back to the OP and thinking about how many people are using cell phones and wireless devices on a daily basis, it seems a bit scary! I think these wireless divices outnumber kitchen microwave ovens by now and each one of them is used numerous times a day. Time will tell, but I think there will be day that we start having health issues due to what is bouncing around in the air.
It does seem to me that this should be considered some form of pollution.

[artistry]

She was serious when she said it, I understand the precautions, the lead glass, and I have no way to prove it did or did not happen. All I know is that I do not stand in front of a micowave oven, regardless. I also heard that your eyes can be affected by staring at the inside of one, while it is operating. Perhaps a fable as well? Thanks.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

I think there is "unscientific" proof that we are becoming dumber and dumber as a people, and all this
electromagnetic waves close to our heads may be the answer.


Get one of those "you record your voice" birthday cards, and sing Sting's song into it-
"Don't stand, don't stand, don't stand so close to me." and hang it up by the nuker.

[artistry]

Well, with all the mercury being consumed from our fish and other seafood, and the chemicals from foods in the supermarket, we don't need to worry too much about the outside of our bodies. Cheers.

[QuatreHiead]

I don't know about all the conventional microwave oven stuff... I do doubt that a person could stand in front of one working properly closed and all and it have an effect. You'd be standing there a long time and I imagine starvation or thirst would be the major contributing factor far before anything the microwave can do.

And I have had a habit of staring into microwaves since I was young. Thus far, nothing. So if there is an effect, it would very, very long term. The only possible issue you could say would be my astigmatism, which isn't very severe. I only need it glasses for reading material far away. Other than that, my vision is fine. Now in the future, who knows. But considering all the other possible harmful things I expose my eyes to and stress them with, it would be impossible to know what effect the conventional domestic microwave oven had.

That aside, to the microwaves in the electromagnetic spectrum topic: I know that in Japan there is a firm belief they can have a serious effect on a developing fetus. It is not cool, and considered rude in so many ways to use a cellphone around someone expecting a child. I don't know whether this still remains true, but I recall researching that there would be signs warning people against using cellphones in public areas in case of the presence of an expecting mother.

Perhaps I should look up if they did research for this of some kind...

[MyDigitalpoint]

Fortunately I have discontinued the use of microwave ovens since several years back.

Whether they contribute to air pollution or health risks, I'm happy that I'm not longer contributing with this.

[meowcow]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 12 June 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Lol'd at this! :D

I think that all of these new technologies are relatively safe. I mean, I don't think they would be allowed to exist if there were real risks involved and even celphones have always been a subject of debate but there hasn't been any real studies that have been put out to dispute this. It's not a fun life to live dodging all these things that are supposed to be bad for us, we just have to do some research and trust our instincts.This is just the best thing we can do.

[Pat]

There are people that will not be in the same room as a microwave when it is cooking becuase they do not want the waves to make them sick, or eat food cooked in a microwave.  My question is why do the cell phones get hot?  Is that a problem for me?

[zararina]

I also do not think that it could be considered as air pollution.
Been reading a lot too about cell phones radiation that could cause cancer and it was even reported on some news years or months ago. We cannot totally avoid those radiation or microwaves as we have tons of things that could produce them but of course better to be not too expose as too much exposure would be bad.