49 replies to this topic

[FamilyTreeClimber]

It's been over a year since the tragic earthquake and tsunami struck Japan.  Now the debris from the tsunami is striking us.  Bits and pieces are starting to wash up on the shores of the West Coast states.

A thought occurred to me.  They've been watching this debris float across the Pacific Ocean for months.  Why couldn't they do something to prevent it from striking our shores?  Would there have been a way to block the debris from getting to land?

Some of this garbage is most likely contaminated with radioactive waste or other toxins.  Authorities assure us that radioactivity is not an issue.  I'm not sure I feel comfortable with their reassurance.

I wonder how much garbage is out there.  What are they going to do with it once it washes up on shore?

http://www.myfoxla.c...511-fc_19865486

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Who'd do it? Who'd pay for it?
The "garbage patch" has been around for years, impossible to remove. This is just adding to it.

We're doing this with our throw away mentality. But taxpayers would scream bloody murder if asked to pay for the cleanup.
It's trash from all over the world, but mostly it's our trash.
Look up Pacific gyre garbage patch or trash vortex.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

Shortpoet, I am aware of the garbage patch out in the Pacific.  I would like to find some way to clean that up, too!  Maybe we need some garbage eating microbes out in the ocean to devour it.  Of course, we might end up with a super beast in the end.

It's still difficult to grasp that debris from Japan can end up on the shores of Washington, Oregon, and California.  There is a certain helplessness.  It's coming.  We know it.  We are powerless to do anything about it.  We can't stop it.  We will have to clean it up as it comes in.  I wonder if any counties have made attempts to block the debris before it gets up on the beaches.

Maybe that is why many people have a difficult time thinking about environmental issues like global warming.  It is easy to feel powerless in the face of something so overwhelming.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

I hear ya.
Here's a thought (that'll never happen)-
just think, if all the millions that are being wasted on super pac's for all of the elections since citizens united opened up
the flood gates for money buying elections
was instead spent, on hiring fishermen/boats to clean up this mess-we'd make a substantial dent in the garbage.
Even jobs would be created. What a concept.
Oi.

[saver]

Please read this on the Pacific Garbage patch:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4132


I'm obviously against dumping rubbish at sea, but a personal bugbear of mine is poor arguments, as they can do as much to harm the person making them.

If anything it's interesting that it got mentioned in this topic - as if debris is hitting the US, it's a circumstantial argument AGAINST there being an all consuming garbage patch in the middle of the Pacific, which would have captured the debris right?


This is a useful story in that it highlights that we do all live on one planet, and events that occur hundreds, thousands of miles away can and will affect us.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

saver, on 27 May 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4132
If anything it's interesting that it got mentioned in this topic - as if debris is hitting the US, it's a circumstantial argument AGAINST there being an all consuming garbage patch in the middle of the Pacific, which would have captured the debris right?

The link denies it exists at all.

It doesn't pass the common sense test.

Human beings are not a tidy species. We throw junk on the ground all the time. Plastic
bags float in the air, get caught in trees-find their way downstream into the oceans.

Tornadoes, floods-washes even more stuff down streams, rivers.
How much of the planet is water? No one can say that all of our trash stays neatly
on the land. It has to go the ocean.

Actually, there are several "patches".
With sea water and sun, a large portion of our trash gets broken down into small pieces.
Almost like phytoplankton.
With storms, currents, hurricanes, it all moves around; it's not in a set pattern.

http://en.wikipedia....c_Garbage_Patch
http://www.nytimes.c...ce/10patch.html
http://www.mindfully...acificNov03.htm

[aphil]

Whenever I hear about this trash floating in the ocean, and all water pollution, I think about how the fish and other sea creatures and plants are down there dealing with it. They may use some of it, some of it is hazardous to them and just seems the whole cycle of their environment gets thrown off. Then, maybe people end up eating fish and things that have consumed this garbage and radioactivity; it comes full circle.
I think it is a good question you pose, as to why they just watched this debri float to the shores without doing anything.

[dissn_it]

I hadn't thought about the radiation being in the tsunami debris before. That is something that people should be aware of if they are beachcombing for souveniers. There will be people trying to sell what they find on the internet, too. It was just such a terrible tragedy that happened to Japan and it just seems to just keep going and going.
I wonder about the effects of the debris on sea life as well. So far I have not heard anything about it. Sadly, there just had to be some kind of effect there as well.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

http://www.altenergy...nto-food-chain/
http://www.safesacks...acts/turtle.jpg
http://sphotos.xx.fb...159070993_n.jpg

[Hardison]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 26 May 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Who'd do it? Who'd pay for it?
The "garbage patch" has been around for years, impossible to remove. This is just adding to it.

We're doing this with our throw away mentality. But taxpayers would scream bloody murder if asked to pay for the cleanup.
It's trash from all over the world, but mostly it's our trash.
Look up Pacific gyre garbage patch or trash vortex.

I have never heard of this before. This is sad. I do agree that taxpayers would balk at having to pay for the cleanup.  I read that mostof the trash is from plastics. I will not be able to look at bottled water the same way. And it's not just water bottles. Many other items come in plastic containers.

[bryce12]

This was kind of expected. Last year Japanese tsunami washed millions of tonnes of garbage into sea and a lot of it was unsinkable. Think about wooden houses, boats etc. and it was inevitable that some of it would wash into US West coast. The authorities could have monitored it more effectively and hauled it away but then the cost would have been prohibitive.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

bryce12, on 28 May 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

The authorities could have monitored it more effectively and hauled it away but then the cost would have been prohibitive.

Again; which authorities?
Japans?
The earthquake/tsunami devastated their economy for a long time. They couldn't help. We sent help
help/aid to them; for the living. Their disaster slowed our economy too when we couldn't get car parts for Nissan
and Toyota-among other things.
USA? We're broke too. But we'll end up being the ones cleaning it up once it hits our beaches.
(But I'm not  blaming the Japanese here, so please don't read that wrong.)

The ocean trash is another issue.
Other countries that are being affected? They can't afford to pay for clean-up crews either.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

Shortpoet, It will have to be the US authorities because it will be our shores.  Japan could be forced to pay into a fund to help with cleanup.  I'm not sure if that will happen.  Maybe it already has.

Either way, we will be cleaning it up.  I cannot see California officials or those from any state leaving rotted wood, hunks of metal, and other debris sitting on their beaches.  The question becomes what is the most efficient and least costly way to clean it up?  This probably wouldn't be effective but I wonder if they could have placed those booms they use for oil spills to protect our beaches in the water so that there was a barrier in the most sensitive areas.

I guess one could see this as a job creating program.  It's going to take many people from different businesses to deal with the debris.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 28 May 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I guess one could see this as a job creating program.
It's going to take many people from different businesses to deal with the debris.

If someone organized a volunteer group of non-profits like Green Peace and the Sierra Club, for instance-
they could remove a lot of it but California is in dire straights (as are many state governments) so clean-up
will be difficult because of their bankrupt budget.
We'll watch the news and see what they come up with; but I agree-it has to be dealt with.

[zararina]

So true that countries affected with sea garbage do not have funds for it or either do not want to spend funds for it.
And agree that expenditures on elections of some candidates could be of better use if spent on cleaning the garbage in the sea/ocean. Specially for those who really spend millions and millions of funds.

[saver]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 27 May 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

The link denies it exists at all.

Well it denies that there's one super-large patch. And there does seem to be a lack of photos of one.

BUT this is not to lessen the necessity of keeping the oceans clean. If anything it shows how the rubbish is broken down, and then consumed and entering the food chain.
One large patch probably would be a good thing as it could be dealt with easier than many molecule sized pieces.

Anyway, I'm a bit off topic.

It's an interesting situation where it comes to paying for the clean up of natural disasters when material has entered international waters.
I fear it will only be dealt with if it harms fishermen's stocks and economies. Otherwise it will just be left to float out there.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

saver, on 29 May 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

I fear it will only be dealt with if it harms fishermen's stocks and economies. Otherwise it will just be left to float out there.

aka deep water horizon.
Total cop out by bp/halliburton and the rest. And we still have oil-with no consequences
to speak of.
But then, we keep fueling up our cars via these behemoths, so it's our blame too.

Sorry-off topic.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

A large dock from Japan's tsunami washed up in Oregon.
Videos.

[JBMedia]

It's hard to really state. As much as I love the ocean and always do my best to keep it's habitat and surrounding areas clean, I'm not even sure if I would clean this up knowing what it was. As far as the government trying to ensure us that the pieces of debris are not radioactively harmful, I'd double think that. Who really even knows? That's the scary part about the issue.

[artistry]

It's already too late, the chemicals are in the water, and have been floating this way since the leaks began and the Japanese started flushing the radiated water out of the plant. I would think that evidence of the effect will be seen in people getting certain diseases or whatever from this entire incident, on the west coast. .The children around the Chernobyl area are infected and have cancers from radiation 25 years old, at this point in time.
As far as cleaning up the debris from the coast line, unless the federal government does it, no state has any excess money to launch a clean-up. Everything will just float til it lands somewhere. My thought is that the west coast has been contamined to the nth degree by this. People can say it is minute amounts, but if it washes up on the shores over and over, there is a build-up and could someone tell me if they have stopped the leakage yet? Sorry for my pessimistic attitude.