Create a Free Account or Sign In to connect and share in green living and alternative energy forum discussions. |
Is solar power worth it?
#1
Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:32 PM
#2
Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:40 PM
#3
Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:43 PM
I did self install and even with cheap 6.5 cent/KWH my payback is less than eight years. Panel prices have since dropped 30% more so if I did it today payback would be less than seven years, perhaps six and a half.
Having an installer do it, is much less viable. Unless you states incentives are really extravigant, you could easily end up with 15-20 year payback or more. My self install cost $22,600 for 10KW, if I did it today it would be more like $18,000. Subtract 30% tax credit from that number. Having a contractor put in 10KW could run up to $60,000.
Of course you can do a much smaller system but contractor overhead would be an even bigger hit.
You'll need sun access for most of the day as well.
If you are interested in DIY I can point you to wholesale websites for the best deals, and direct you to a fun tool which lets you play with different sized systems to get a flavor of how they work.
#4
Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:09 PM
I believe this is the best power source, but It has always been costly and opposite to technology, the pass of the time is not reducing significantly the price tags.
#5
Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:41 PM
#6
Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:35 PM
#7
Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:00 PM
#8
Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:41 AM
#9
Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:19 PM
#10
Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:30 PM
Hardison, on 13 April 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:
Wow! That is awesome! I don't know of any companies here that will install them for free. I'm guessing that if you buy the supplies from them, they will then install it for nothing. That would make sense.
#11
Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:56 PM
#12
Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:27 AM
clewand550, on 13 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:
Where "here" is makes a really big difference, How much electricity you use can make a big difference too.
Here in the US different states have different kinds of rebate and subsidy schemes. In California there actually are companies that offer a no-upfront-cost to homeowners for solar electricity setups. Sounds too good to be true. Got to be dependent on taxpayer or ratepayer subsidy. (We do have a state renewable electricity requirement for the major utilities, that affects things a lot)
If you listen to some of our local radio ads, having a monthly electricity bill of over $150 makes it feasible. $150 is far more than our electricityuse (we use natural gas too), but some people certainly use that much.
So much depends on where "here" is.
Too, there are people who have rooftop PV for other than monetary reasons. For principle.
#13
Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:49 AM
Prices have come down dramatically! Three decades ago they were in the $15/watt range, now they are in the $1.50 range and below and that's today's dollars vs 80's dollars! They may go down a little from here but not by much more. Now is the time to jump in.
Clewand550,
Here is the best site for panels and inverter's I've found. They've even formed a partnership with Ford for installing solar power to charge their Focus Electric. http://www.sunelec.com/
Here is a great site for everything else: mounting racks, grounding, disconnects, USE2 wire, etc. http://solarelectric...m/shoppingcart/
I chose a SMA Sunnyboy inverter and it's great. It runs totally on DC so it draws no power at night. My 8KW inverter will start if it can generate 2W and keep running down to that level as well, you can't suck much more power out of the sun than that.
A great benefit is their "Sunny Design" tool available here: http://www.sma-ameri.../downloads.html It lets you configure an entire system and get it right. You choose one of their inverters, choose the panels you want to use and choose the location closest to where you live and it will give you the optimal design and a performance estimate.
There are a couple of gotcha's in solar that are beyond normal wiring. If you roof install and want to run conduit through the attic it must be metal and since it's over 250V it must have a ground bushing to specifically ground the conduit. You can buy the stuff at HD and either a pipe bender or buy preformed 45 and 90 bends and more couplings. You can also use flexible metallic.
If you need more info post back here. It goes without saying that you must pull an electrical permit and check with your utility for their specific requirements, (net metering agreement, etc.).
Andeldrb,
Oil companies are doing nothing to stop this, BP even sells solar panels. Remember, excepting the Nisan Leaf and Ford Focus electric virtually all cars run on oil, not electricity.
Hardison,
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! What they do is install it for free but you pay them over time by giving them your savings. You will pay much more over the long run because they are contractors, you will not only pay them for the equipment, but their labor and their interest. Think about it, in order to do this, they have to take out a loan, buy the equipment, pay their workers, etc. All that overhead has to come from someone and that someone is you.
Don't get me wrong, if that's the only way you can afford it, then go for it. It is much more lucrative if you can swing the deal yourself even if you have to take out the loan. The places I've refered to sell wholesale, contractors can't get much better than that, and the labor costs are not insubstantial.
#14
Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:54 AM
My average bill is $75 and it pays for me, (payback less than 8 years despite 6.5 cent/KWH local rate). That's the difference between contractor install and self install. I'm also a stones throw from Canada so southern CA would get 30% more sun than I do.
#15
Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:47 PM
Phil, on 14 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:
Prices have come down dramatically.....They may go down a little from here but not by much more. Now is the time to jump in.
I think you're probably right about prices not coming down a lot more, for rooftop type PV equipment anyway. Some more, no doubt, but not enough to justify continued delay. Centralzed PV might be different.
Contractor costs separate from the equipment probably won't come down a lot more either. Actual install labor costs will likely remain about the same but maybe, just maybe the administrative costs will come down. I guess one problem is non-standard permitting. I understand one city can require a lot more paperwork than another, can add many hundreds of extra dollars. I think there are proposals for standardization, but just proposals.
I'll have to review the numbers. Could be now is the time for us.
Regarding self install, do-it-yourself, while I think I might try it, some of my neighbors aren't to be trusted on a ladder.
#16
Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:11 PM
Phil, on 14 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:
Prices have come down dramatically! Three decades ago they were in the $15/watt range, now they are in the $1.50 range and below and that's today's dollars vs 80's dollars! They may go down a little from here but not by much more. Now is the time to jump in.
Clewand550,
Here is the best site for panels and inverter's I've found. They've even formed a partnership with Ford for installing solar power to charge their Focus Electric. http://www.sunelec.com/
Here is a great site for everything else: mounting racks, grounding, disconnects, USE2 wire, etc. http://solarelectric...m/shoppingcart/
I chose a SMA Sunnyboy inverter and it's great. It runs totally on DC so it draws no power at night. My 8KW inverter will start if it can generate 2W and keep running down to that level as well, you can't suck much more power out of the sun than that.
A great benefit is their "Sunny Design" tool available here: http://www.sma-ameri.../downloads.html It lets you configure an entire system and get it right. You choose one of their inverters, choose the panels you want to use and choose the location closest to where you live and it will give you the optimal design and a performance estimate.
There are a couple of gotcha's in solar that are beyond normal wiring. If you roof install and want to run conduit through the attic it must be metal and since it's over 250V it must have a ground bushing to specifically ground the conduit. You can buy the stuff at HD and either a pipe bender or buy preformed 45 and 90 bends and more couplings. You can also use flexible metallic.
If you need more info post back here. It goes without saying that you must pull an electrical permit and check with your utility for their specific requirements, (net metering agreement, etc.).
Andeldrb,
Oil companies are doing nothing to stop this, BP even sells solar panels. Remember, excepting the Nisan Leaf and Ford Focus electric virtually all cars run on oil, not electricity.
Hardison,
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! What they do is install it for free but you pay them over time by giving them your savings. You will pay much more over the long run because they are contractors, you will not only pay them for the equipment, but their labor and their interest. Think about it, in order to do this, they have to take out a loan, buy the equipment, pay their workers, etc. All that overhead has to come from someone and that someone is you.
Don't get me wrong, if that's the only way you can afford it, then go for it. It is much more lucrative if you can swing the deal yourself even if you have to take out the loan. The places I've refered to sell wholesale, contractors can't get much better than that, and the labor costs are not insubstantial.
Thank you Phil for sharing this site with me. It will help. Thank you. Now I'm really eager to put solar power in. Thank you to everyone else too for sharing all of your advise and tips.
#17
Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:43 AM
You bet.
#18
Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:49 AM
#19
Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:56 PM
Phil, on 14 April 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:
Hardison,
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! What they do is install it for free but you pay them over time by giving them your savings. You will pay much more over the long run because they are contractors, you will not only pay them for the equipment, but their labor and their interest. Think about it, in order to do this, they have to take out a loan, buy the equipment, pay their workers, etc. All that overhead has to come from someone and that someone is you.
Don't get me wrong, if that's the only way you can afford it, then go for it. It is much more lucrative if you can swing the deal yourself even if you have to take out the loan. The places I've refered to sell wholesale, contractors can't get much better than that, and the labor costs are not insubstantial.
So true! It turned out that the company only rented the solar panels to the homeowners. It's a completely ripoff! Many people contacted the company, but when they learned of the completely details....balked.
#20
Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:38 PM
One thing our PUD did to us is warn us rates would go up because their power source was going to raise rates. When they did raise the bill they raised their service charge and NOT the rates! To me that's cheating, I have to pay the monthly service charge regardless of meter reading, even if it's negative for the month. That's about $20/mo! If I have a net negative meter at the end of the year the PUD also pays me for that but at a 2/3 rate, not a biggie since if I do have a negative reading it won't be by much.
Ah, the old rented panel ploy!
Clewand550,
Be sure and download that tool! It will give you loads of information and will guarantee you get it right. Best of all it's free! Once you see how the variables affect the results you can always hand calculate for other manufacturers' inverters if you go that route. SMA does give you the most options though, and they are the biggest mfr of inverters in the world.
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask more questions.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users