Solar panels have always been the way to gather solar energy, but solar sheeting appears to be the latest way we will soon have to save a lot on this energy source. Apparently, they can produce the sheeting at hundreds of feet per minute. That would make solar power extremely cost effective compared to the current panels we use. This would be a great way to get the general consumer using solar power. I have looked into solar panels for years, but they are way too expensive to produce because the crystals have to be grown. I am still hopeful for this new technology to come out. I did read somewhere that there was a place in China working on the film, but it was still only available for commercial uses. Once it comes out for the rest of us to try it, I plan on buying it. I am not too sure how it will function in relation to regular panels. I cannot even fathom how its connected, personally. Has anyone else read up on this product before or knows any more details on the subject?
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Solar Sheeting - the newest way to save on solar?
Started by
Guest_Charmeuse000_*
, Feb 10 2012 11:42 AM
13 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:44 PM
On the subject of thin film solar, well Germany is leading the world right now. Thin film typically cost 20% more and does not generate as much per panel if in full sun, but if you are in a cloudy part of the world, thin film delivers when standard glass panes can’t. Material wise thin film is cheaper, but because there is not wide spread mass production it cost more to make. My favorite American Manufacture of thin film is United Solar’s Ovonics, http://www.uni-solar.com/ a subsidiary of Energy Conversion Devices, Inc.
Their residential products are Also Dow has started mass producing a new thin film shingle which they are marketing in Colorado now and everywhere else soon they say. Remeber that thin film costs more today, but in low light and cloudy locations actually works better. Hope this helps
Their residential products are Also Dow has started mass producing a new thin film shingle which they are marketing in Colorado now and everywhere else soon they say. Remeber that thin film costs more today, but in low light and cloudy locations actually works better. Hope this helps
#3
Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:16 PM
Well, obviously this isn't a new development, but it's new to me, and it's exciting to think that there's a product that sounds so ideal for my part of the country. There are plenty of regular solar panels around, on commercial and residential buildings, but some day (several years from now) I plan to build a home completely off the grid and this sounds ideal as part of the energy package. Hopefully by that time they will have come down a little in price as well, but even if they don't, well, it's the house I plan to retire in so I'll get a lot of use out of them.
#4
Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:34 PM
Prices are coming down for thin film, just not as fast as conventional panels. Two factors would help. First if German producers could license some products for production here in the US. Second if the federal government would move more proactively on Residential as opposed to commercial where they are focusing primarily, then manufactures would be able to profit from smaller configurations for homes.
Another factor in your favor is the fact that it is cheaper to install solar at construction then to later retrofit on an existing house. I also have a tip for you, it’s great to build to be off the grid but the best way to pay off the equipment and help everyone else is to reverse meter you excess sales. One of the Pillars of the designs we do is to oversize the alternative energy by 30%. The reasons go like this.
1. Over time (20-30 years) homes or buildings need more power as we get more stuff. Example most homes built between 1960’s and 1980’s had 100 or 125 amp service, today the standard is 200 amp so homes have to spend to upgrade usually 3-5 thousand. By planning for this you can use the excess to payoff using reverse metering and grow as you need it.
2. Even as prices come down, usually it is cheaper to oversize now than to do it later, because of inflation- so even though the amount of over sizing is 15% more in cost you still get the benefit of 30% overproduction because it’s the other stuff needed for a system besides the panels that add so much cost, think inverters, battery backups, rectifiers, mountings, permitting and so on. Over sizing now only adds a little cost because all these other things can take a wide range of different sized instillations so the main thing you are buying when over sizing is panels, everything else is already figured in.
3. Suppose you want to someday have an electric car or like myself a Fuel Cell Car ( and I am tell you I want one now and am on the waiting list) over sizing gives you the ability to provide for production of your electricity for the EV or FCV.
4. Over sizing gives you the ability to keep your battery backup fully charged more, meaning you can reverse meter during peak times of the day when you make more money from the reverse metering.
5. The payoff is usually quicker if you over size, meaning that you are free and clear more quickly and because you can show the over production as a long term income allows you to get financing from the bank much more easily.
For our commercial designs we have found over production to be one of the primary ways to add long term benefits, value and revenue that you cannot get by just sizing the system for you base needs. Many times for commercial we do this by designing hybrid systems that incorporate two or more renewable sources. Say solar for electric production and geothermal for heating and cooling, or solar and wind and so on. It provides better overall security for constant power and allows you to provide for additional redundancy and therefore sales. That’s POLY-GENERATIVE SYNERGY.
Final thing every car company that is going with FCV's for 2015 rollout is developing systems to fuel from home, so having a little extra power for my Elecrolyzer means I can then be ready to fuel my FCV at home overnight.
Another factor in your favor is the fact that it is cheaper to install solar at construction then to later retrofit on an existing house. I also have a tip for you, it’s great to build to be off the grid but the best way to pay off the equipment and help everyone else is to reverse meter you excess sales. One of the Pillars of the designs we do is to oversize the alternative energy by 30%. The reasons go like this.
1. Over time (20-30 years) homes or buildings need more power as we get more stuff. Example most homes built between 1960’s and 1980’s had 100 or 125 amp service, today the standard is 200 amp so homes have to spend to upgrade usually 3-5 thousand. By planning for this you can use the excess to payoff using reverse metering and grow as you need it.
2. Even as prices come down, usually it is cheaper to oversize now than to do it later, because of inflation- so even though the amount of over sizing is 15% more in cost you still get the benefit of 30% overproduction because it’s the other stuff needed for a system besides the panels that add so much cost, think inverters, battery backups, rectifiers, mountings, permitting and so on. Over sizing now only adds a little cost because all these other things can take a wide range of different sized instillations so the main thing you are buying when over sizing is panels, everything else is already figured in.
3. Suppose you want to someday have an electric car or like myself a Fuel Cell Car ( and I am tell you I want one now and am on the waiting list) over sizing gives you the ability to provide for production of your electricity for the EV or FCV.
4. Over sizing gives you the ability to keep your battery backup fully charged more, meaning you can reverse meter during peak times of the day when you make more money from the reverse metering.
5. The payoff is usually quicker if you over size, meaning that you are free and clear more quickly and because you can show the over production as a long term income allows you to get financing from the bank much more easily.
For our commercial designs we have found over production to be one of the primary ways to add long term benefits, value and revenue that you cannot get by just sizing the system for you base needs. Many times for commercial we do this by designing hybrid systems that incorporate two or more renewable sources. Say solar for electric production and geothermal for heating and cooling, or solar and wind and so on. It provides better overall security for constant power and allows you to provide for additional redundancy and therefore sales. That’s POLY-GENERATIVE SYNERGY.
Final thing every car company that is going with FCV's for 2015 rollout is developing systems to fuel from home, so having a little extra power for my Elecrolyzer means I can then be ready to fuel my FCV at home overnight.
#5
Posted 11 February 2012 - 02:37 PM
Once again, thank you. Incredibly useful information. Especially since I do want to own an electric vehicle some day and where I will be living is a rural area. It's an island only reachable by ferry. Of course, once you get off the ferry you're in a big city, with all the conveniences, but life on the island is still pretty independent and the more you're prepared to do yourself the better. So, yes, I'll want to charge a vehicle some day and since I plan to live there many years and eventually retire there it makes a lot of sense to set up a system that anticipates eventual needs and has the ability to be a source of income, even if it's small.
#6
Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:54 PM
Sounds like this would be a great product to have in addition to solar panels, especially if a person has a lot of space to set it out. Days where it is cloudy, you wouldn't have to resort to conventional means of power! Regular power suppliers could become obsolete! Woohoo.
#7
Posted 11 February 2012 - 07:03 PM
To quote Jeremy Rifkin- I do not appose centeralized utility electric production, but it will not be enough to stop global climate change. Why use centalized power plants when every square inch of this planet has alternative energy avalible in some form everywhere. The sun, wind, water, geothermal, biofuel, biowaste- my God how much energy do we need and why are we not using every building and every home as micro-powerplants to mitigate climate change and save this planet.
#8
Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:59 PM
I have these panels at home and tried them out but not for covering the house. Though they are not highly efficient, their low cost and the ability to cover so many surfaces would be of considerable use in terms of capturing energy. If they could be used in place of solar shades or in conjunction with them, they might even allow energy that would enter the home in the summer to actually be used to cool it while the shades themselves prevented solar gain. Then in the winter, they could be removed and the solar gain used to heat the home.
My only hope is that the Chinese don't become the ones primarily producing these as it will be yet another industry that is lost from North America.
My only hope is that the Chinese don't become the ones primarily producing these as it will be yet another industry that is lost from North America.
#9
Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:40 PM
Great information, if these solar sheets can be produced in a high enough quantity, people will certainly want to use them. Especially when they will work much more effectively than the solar panels. May I suggest E3-Wise, that you would submit some of your suggestions to Washington, and the Department of Energy, they could use your help, seriously. Cheers.
#10
Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:42 PM
You can buy regular panels now for $1.10/W, suitable for grid tie and laminates, (no frame), for $0.50/W for off grid. At these prices do films make sense? The company is Sun Electronics and their prices are real, I bought my modules there.
I do have a problem with utility owned generation! First, they get the benefit, not the homeowner and you'll pay a premium to boot. Second, due to low module efficiencies they have to aquire a lot of land and all that entails while most peoples roofs are just sitting there idle.
Solar module and film production are highly automated, it takes very few jobs to produce gigawatts of power. I therefore think it is a net gain to have China commoditize them. The only reason i could afford to buy is because they have driven the price down to the point they are affodable to the average Joe. As long as we do the research and develop the processes here, that is what is important for us to keep. The number of jobs lost to manufacture is infinitesimal.
I do have a problem with utility owned generation! First, they get the benefit, not the homeowner and you'll pay a premium to boot. Second, due to low module efficiencies they have to aquire a lot of land and all that entails while most peoples roofs are just sitting there idle.
Solar module and film production are highly automated, it takes very few jobs to produce gigawatts of power. I therefore think it is a net gain to have China commoditize them. The only reason i could afford to buy is because they have driven the price down to the point they are affodable to the average Joe. As long as we do the research and develop the processes here, that is what is important for us to keep. The number of jobs lost to manufacture is infinitesimal.
#11
Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:04 PM
Phil thank you so much for your response, you bring up some very good points, and yes you are right about the cost of Sun Electronics panel prices. Good call.
I also like the point you are making concerning who produces these panels because this is a discussion we need to be having here in the United States and around the world. Do we as a country want to lead the world in manufacturing this and other renewable technologies, or do we want to let others gain the competitive advantages that will make alternative energy the economic driver of the 21st century. There are few easy answer, but it’s a conversation we need to have.
I am really glad cost is coming down because now more people like you can make the Alt. Energy Shift that we all want for this planet. Right now the solar industry is in a developing period, as always the market place and capitalism will shake out the kinks and it may very well be that we will continue to let others takeover the mass production of these technologies.
My biggest concern is that people take the time to research and find the best product, at good prices that meets their needs. Congratulations on going solar, I am sure many people would love to know what area of the country you live in and what type and size of system you have, because a lot of people have questions out there. When it comes to making an Alt. Energy Shift the more information the better.
I also like the point you are making concerning who produces these panels because this is a discussion we need to be having here in the United States and around the world. Do we as a country want to lead the world in manufacturing this and other renewable technologies, or do we want to let others gain the competitive advantages that will make alternative energy the economic driver of the 21st century. There are few easy answer, but it’s a conversation we need to have.
I am really glad cost is coming down because now more people like you can make the Alt. Energy Shift that we all want for this planet. Right now the solar industry is in a developing period, as always the market place and capitalism will shake out the kinks and it may very well be that we will continue to let others takeover the mass production of these technologies.
My biggest concern is that people take the time to research and find the best product, at good prices that meets their needs. Congratulations on going solar, I am sure many people would love to know what area of the country you live in and what type and size of system you have, because a lot of people have questions out there. When it comes to making an Alt. Energy Shift the more information the better.
#12
Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:11 PM
I think that it is really important for the makers of the technologies to also be employing people locally in the manufacturing process simply to justify the tax credits that are given to the industries doing the R&D. Otherwise, tax payer dollars are essentially funding jobs in other countries and subsidizing the wealth made by the small few designing these products. Other countries will still have much of the competitive advantage because of their lower costs so our governments must use their involvement to serve their population in the process. If countries like China want to compete, they will have to spend their own money to advance the science.
#13
Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:24 AM
The point I was making about jobs is a cost/benefit analysis. Solar manufacure is highly automated, there are very few workers involved in producing megawatts of power. The amount of jobs created by doing it on shore is just not worth the much higher price.
Apple does all it's innovation here and builds in China, as does Dell. I-Pods, I-phones, etc. would not be affordable if they were made here. Unless workers are willing to take a substantial pay cut and the EPA is willing to look the other way, solar would not be viable for at least another decade, if that. One cannot ingore basic economics no matter how noble the goal.
The unfortunate side of technology is increased efficiency. Robots took the UAW from 350,000 members to 35,000. There used to be "steno pools", typists, and secretaries, computers killed all that. Solar just doesn't create that many jobs, and will destroy them in the long run. There have actually been books written about this long term shrinking labor phenomenon.
" I am sure many people would love to know what area of the country you live in and what type and size of system you have, because a lot of people have questions out there."
I live in WA across the strait from Seattle, a stones throw from Canada. I can drive into town and take a ferry to Vancouver, BC. My wife is going there next week in fact!
My system is 42 Canadian Solar CSP-230P for a total of 9.66KW. I use a SMA SunnyBoy SB8000-US 8KW inverter. It should supply 90-95% of my electricity. Payback less than eight years. My electric rate is 6.5 cents/KWH, rather low as rates go. Those with higher rates and better state incentives could see faster paybacks.
My system is self installed. If I had to pay a contractor I wouldn't have done it, it would never have paid for itself. I posted a new thead on government funding idea's for plug and play consumer solar, (buy it, take it home and hook it up), this is the only way to go in my opinion.
Apple does all it's innovation here and builds in China, as does Dell. I-Pods, I-phones, etc. would not be affordable if they were made here. Unless workers are willing to take a substantial pay cut and the EPA is willing to look the other way, solar would not be viable for at least another decade, if that. One cannot ingore basic economics no matter how noble the goal.
The unfortunate side of technology is increased efficiency. Robots took the UAW from 350,000 members to 35,000. There used to be "steno pools", typists, and secretaries, computers killed all that. Solar just doesn't create that many jobs, and will destroy them in the long run. There have actually been books written about this long term shrinking labor phenomenon.
" I am sure many people would love to know what area of the country you live in and what type and size of system you have, because a lot of people have questions out there."
I live in WA across the strait from Seattle, a stones throw from Canada. I can drive into town and take a ferry to Vancouver, BC. My wife is going there next week in fact!
My system is 42 Canadian Solar CSP-230P for a total of 9.66KW. I use a SMA SunnyBoy SB8000-US 8KW inverter. It should supply 90-95% of my electricity. Payback less than eight years. My electric rate is 6.5 cents/KWH, rather low as rates go. Those with higher rates and better state incentives could see faster paybacks.
My system is self installed. If I had to pay a contractor I wouldn't have done it, it would never have paid for itself. I posted a new thead on government funding idea's for plug and play consumer solar, (buy it, take it home and hook it up), this is the only way to go in my opinion.
#14
Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:36 PM
This is all good information to know for the future. I plan on building a cabin in the back 40 of a quarter of land my family owns, and the power lines do not run that far into the property. I am doing my research now so that when I am ready to build, I have a good idea of what will be needed. I like to concept of power being produced even on cloudy days, as we often get several cloudy days in a row.
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